eminiviper.com

I started this topic because some questions I asked and answers I got from cba33558 were getting lost in this rather extensive topic here:

http://www.mypivots.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2300&whichpage=30

We started this discussion on page 30 of that thread, and I thought I'd move it here so we can continue it (since no one took me up on my offer to start this thread). I'll cut and paste the three posts made after cba33558 posted a chart about eminiviper.com

From 6/8/09:

jimkane: Hey, cba. I checked out that EminiViper.com page. Very impressive. Seems like they don't have any losing days, or even losing trades (or do they not post those?). Is that so? If not, how many stop outs or false signals are you seeing on an average day? It doesn't mean much to me to see winners, I am more interested in the losers I have to take to get those winners. Also, are you the owner of EminiViper.com, or do you work for them? If not, what is your association? If I don't ask, that will likely be the first question from everyone else. Thanks.


cba33558: Hey Jim -

Thanks for visiting the Web site and offering your constructive questions and feedback...

The videos are intended to show the NQ Emini trades that are triggered by the system each day. Currently the system is designed to issue trade signals only the Nasdaq Emini. In addition to the Viper indicator, the system uses a combination of guidance charts and a trading chart that very rarely has a losing trade. With all of these constraints, it should be noted however, that there are not many signals that trigger in any given trading day. Depending on the volatility - usually one or two trades may trigger - a busy day would be 3 trades.

The entire trading system is not shown in the videos; however, all of the details regarding these trade signals are shown in an eBook and training videos. The actual trade signals themselves are analyzed in real-time in the live Webinars. The entire goal of this system was accuracy - not catching every trade.

In answer to your other question, I have been a trader for a little over 12 years now, I am a partner in the firm; and was involved extensively in developing, actively trading and back-testing the Viper system over the past year and a half.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I look forward to opportunity of respectfully participating in your Forum...


jimkane: Thanks for the response, cba. Wow, those are some incredibly impressive stats. Given these are intraday trend trades, it's almost incomprehensible to me. My style is intraday trend trading, and with the 3 to 5 to 1 or sometimes higher reward/risk profiles I'm happy anywhere in the 30% to 50% winners range.

I have a few more questions. Is there a way to follow along and see live trade signals the moment they develop, on a trial basis? The web site mentions visiting a live webinar for a day. Would one see live signals in time to act, or only after they have started? What if no signals are generated that day, can someone try another day? It's very hard to evaluate a system with a one-day trial, especially one that generates only a few signals.

Next, what is the difference between live webinars and live trading room, as far as signals given in real-time? Also, if one signs on to your room and gets all that training, does that do any good without the software? What is the cost of the license, since the website doesn't specify this? I'd love to follow along real-time for a period and evaluate your system, but I'm not sure you have any provisions where I could do that without laying out money first. Again, if I don't ask all these questions, someone else will. Since I'm probably the longest-winded character at this forum, I figured I'd just get the ball rolling. It's not often I hear about a system that has almost no losers at all.

Lastly, if we go much further with this discussion it may be appropriate to move it from this thread to one you or someone else could create in Trading Advisory Services.

Its not that difficult to figure our the algorithm used in the viper indicator. Honestly, even before I read phantasmagoria's post, I figurered out the algoithm on the day when i received the trial indicator. The indicator has been updated a number of times but the algorithm is the same, just different parameters. On my second day of testing the indciator, I managed to reproduce it in ninja. http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1N7Vsr is the chart using my indicator, http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVr1OSr is what they have posted on their website yesterday. They are not exactly the same but I think they are close enough. My guess is we have used different methodologies in calculating the angle.

Bottom line is, does it work? Difficult to say, it depends, to a large extent what range you use. My considered views are (1) you cant use a fixed set of ranges every day (2) its a usueful INDICATOR to supplement your own system but its not a trading system of itself.

One more thing, you will see that my chart is one bar lagged behind the original viper indicator. This is because I used last bar close to calculate the value. This is to avoid the changing of color of the current bar. The original viper uses the current close to calculate and as a result of which, you cant be certain as to whether this signal is a confirmed one or not.

myptofvu,

Mr. Boyle's actions are not surprisng to me. He wants to suppress any negative opinions about Viper because he wants to maximize its sales. Anything that comes between him and that goal needs to be eradicated. Unfortunately, he tagged you. Perhaps you should see it as a blessing.

It speaks volumes about what vendors will do to suppress free speech and opinions about their products. Next step for Mr. Boyle may be to threaten the owners of this forum with a lawsuit.

The fact is Mr. Boyle came to this forum, promoted his product and invited everyone to try it. Some of us put this product and Mr. Boyle's aggressive marketing tactics (and Holy Grail claims) under the magnifying glass. We discovered the product is simply a knockoff of garden variety indicators that are available for free on the Internet. There is nothing prorietary or copyrighted. We also observed that all the trades and claims of profits were hypothetical and after the fact. We have no evidence that Mr. Boyle utilizes Viper to make consistent money from trading. Indeed, his attempt to show live, realtime trades was a fiasco and he didn't even follow the Viper rules. Simply put, it was a joke.

He has been invited to come back to the forum and address these issues--to prove his critics wrong--and he has refused. Instead, he made one additional post to laugh in our faces and mock us like we were a bunch of losers for not embracing the Viper religion. He took the low road. That says alot about him, none of which is positive.

It has been only two months since Viper has been launched and it has changed too many times to remember. I think it's on the 4th version and I understand there are more changes to come. Clearly, Mr. Boyle is searching for an answer to make Viper more than just what it really is; namely, a lagging trend indicator that doesn't distinguish itself from any of the others that will "work" when the market moves strongly in one direction. Bob Dylan wrote: you don't need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind blows."

At this point, Viper is a weatherman with a high price tag.

The banning of the person that they thought was "phantasmagoria", tells you "P's" criticism and analysis was spot on.
Those that listened to them from the onset will also remember claims the the Viper was thoroughly backtested over the last year and a half and from the outset they were always messing with settings to show profitable trades.

The only thing not figured out is the Heiken Ashi like bars they use.

quote:

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Originally posted by thetaxman

The only thing not figured out is the Heiken Ashi like bars they use.

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Perhaps they pinched a download from bigmiketrading.com

quote:

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Originally posted by phantasmagoria

myptofvu,

Mr. Boyle's actions are not surprisng to me. He wants to suppress any negative opinions about Viper because he wants to maximize its sales. Anything that comes between him and that goal needs to be eradicated. Unfortunately, he tagged you. Perhaps you should see it as a blessing.

It speaks volumes about what vendors will do to suppress free speech and opinions about their products. Next step for Mr. Boyle may be to threaten the owners of this forum with a lawsuit.

The fact is Mr. Boyle came to this forum, promoted his product and invited everyone to try it. Some of us put this product and Mr. Boyle's aggressive marketing tactics (and Holy Grail claims) under the magnifying glass. We discovered the product is simply a knockoff of garden variety indicators that are available for free on the Internet. There is nothing prorietary or copyrighted. We also observed that all the trades and claims of profits were hypothetical and after the fact. We have no evidence that Mr. Boyle utilizes Viper to make consistent money from trading. Indeed, his attempt to show live, realtime trades was a fiasco and he didn't even follow the Viper rules. Simply put, it was a joke.

He has been invited to come back to the forum and address these issues--to prove his critics wrong--and he has refused. Instead, he made one additional post to laugh in our faces and mock us like we were a bunch of losers for not embracing the Viper religion. He took the low road. That says alot about him, none of which is positive.

It has been only two months since Viper has been launched and it has changed too many times to remember. I think it's on the 4th version and I understand there are more changes to come. Clearly, Mr. Boyle is searching for an answer to make Viper more than just what it really is; namely, a lagging trend indicator that doesn't distinguish itself from any of the others that will "work" when the market moves strongly in one direction. Bob Dylan wrote: you don't need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind blows."

At this point, Viper is a weatherman with a high price tag.

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I think that's what they call "hitting the nail on the head."

quote:

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Originally posted by phantasmagoria

Tigerman, I have tried Viper.

I think it's a decent trend indicator, but not worth $99.00 a month to me. I can replicate it with a 21 period linear regression line and some basic slope coding for the color changes. And the bars can be replicated fairly closely with Heiken Ashi.

Don't take my word for it. NT has Lin Reg as a free indicator. A 21 period is EXACTLY the same as Viper sans color change. Any of the NT coders can write the color script for $100 and now you OWN the darn thing for the price of 1 month's rent.

There's no magic here.

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looks like the bars change colors when price is above or below the viper

Incorrect. I have a Viper look-a-like; not quite exact but close enough. E-mail me if you want it.

quote:

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Originally posted by gio5959

quote:

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Originally posted by phantasmagoria

Tigerman, I have tried Viper.

I think it's a decent trend indicator, but not worth $99.00 a month to me. I can replicate it with a 21 period linear regression line and some basic slope coding for the color changes. And the bars can be replicated fairly closely with Heiken Ashi.

Don't take my word for it. NT has Lin Reg as a free indicator. A 21 period is EXACTLY the same as Viper sans color change. Any of the NT coders can write the color script for $100 and now you OWN the darn thing for the price of 1 month's rent.

There's no magic here.

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looks like the bars change colors when price is above or below the viper

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phantasmagoria

Can you tell me about the settings i need to use to copy the viper?
For example settings helshinki bars ,linear lines?

Regards Frans

Sorry this reply is 2-years late but I just joined the forum.

I know from personal experience that GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar default to showing all users and all comments unless specifically disabled by the Host.

If they're saying what was reported that's a blatant lie.