eminiviper.com

I started this topic because some questions I asked and answers I got from cba33558 were getting lost in this rather extensive topic here:

http://www.mypivots.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2300&whichpage=30

We started this discussion on page 30 of that thread, and I thought I'd move it here so we can continue it (since no one took me up on my offer to start this thread). I'll cut and paste the three posts made after cba33558 posted a chart about eminiviper.com

From 6/8/09:

jimkane: Hey, cba. I checked out that EminiViper.com page. Very impressive. Seems like they don't have any losing days, or even losing trades (or do they not post those?). Is that so? If not, how many stop outs or false signals are you seeing on an average day? It doesn't mean much to me to see winners, I am more interested in the losers I have to take to get those winners. Also, are you the owner of EminiViper.com, or do you work for them? If not, what is your association? If I don't ask, that will likely be the first question from everyone else. Thanks.


cba33558: Hey Jim -

Thanks for visiting the Web site and offering your constructive questions and feedback...

The videos are intended to show the NQ Emini trades that are triggered by the system each day. Currently the system is designed to issue trade signals only the Nasdaq Emini. In addition to the Viper indicator, the system uses a combination of guidance charts and a trading chart that very rarely has a losing trade. With all of these constraints, it should be noted however, that there are not many signals that trigger in any given trading day. Depending on the volatility - usually one or two trades may trigger - a busy day would be 3 trades.

The entire trading system is not shown in the videos; however, all of the details regarding these trade signals are shown in an eBook and training videos. The actual trade signals themselves are analyzed in real-time in the live Webinars. The entire goal of this system was accuracy - not catching every trade.

In answer to your other question, I have been a trader for a little over 12 years now, I am a partner in the firm; and was involved extensively in developing, actively trading and back-testing the Viper system over the past year and a half.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I look forward to opportunity of respectfully participating in your Forum...


jimkane: Thanks for the response, cba. Wow, those are some incredibly impressive stats. Given these are intraday trend trades, it's almost incomprehensible to me. My style is intraday trend trading, and with the 3 to 5 to 1 or sometimes higher reward/risk profiles I'm happy anywhere in the 30% to 50% winners range.

I have a few more questions. Is there a way to follow along and see live trade signals the moment they develop, on a trial basis? The web site mentions visiting a live webinar for a day. Would one see live signals in time to act, or only after they have started? What if no signals are generated that day, can someone try another day? It's very hard to evaluate a system with a one-day trial, especially one that generates only a few signals.

Next, what is the difference between live webinars and live trading room, as far as signals given in real-time? Also, if one signs on to your room and gets all that training, does that do any good without the software? What is the cost of the license, since the website doesn't specify this? I'd love to follow along real-time for a period and evaluate your system, but I'm not sure you have any provisions where I could do that without laying out money first. Again, if I don't ask all these questions, someone else will. Since I'm probably the longest-winded character at this forum, I figured I'd just get the ball rolling. It's not often I hear about a system that has almost no losers at all.

Lastly, if we go much further with this discussion it may be appropriate to move it from this thread to one you or someone else could create in Trading Advisory Services.

Originally posted by phantasmagoria


Thanks for that candid synopsis, Tom.

Except for the auto-trader analysis, you have confirmed what so many have said before about Viper and its "I'll do anything to make a buck from aspiring traders" brainchild, Charles Boyle.

It won't be long before Viper Trading Systems has as many negative posts on this forum two other world class rippoffs, Tsunami Trading Educators and Trading Zoo (defunct).

Viper Trading Systems is the current frontrunner to win Phantasmagoria's Vendor Hall of Shame award for 2009.

phantasmagoria,

Just curious: What do you mean, "Except for the auto-trader analysis" ?

-Tom

Originally posted by tomgilb

Originally posted by phantasmagoria


Thanks for that candid synopsis, Tom.

Except for the auto-trader analysis, you have confirmed what so many have said before about Viper and its "I'll do anything to make a buck from aspiring traders" brainchild, Charles Boyle.

It won't be long before Viper Trading Systems has as many negative posts on this forum two other world class rippoffs, Tsunami Trading Educators and Trading Zoo (defunct).

Viper Trading Systems is the current frontrunner to win Phantasmagoria's Vendor Hall of Shame award for 2009.

phantasmagoria,

Just curious: What do you mean, "Except for the auto-trader analysis" ?

-Tom

Perhaps I used poor syntax. What I meant to say was your auto-trader review was the first here.

Originally posted by phantasmagoria

Originally posted by tomgilb

Originally posted by phantasmagoria


Thanks for that candid synopsis, Tom.

Except for the auto-trader analysis, you have confirmed what so many have said before about Viper and its "I'll do anything to make a buck from aspiring traders" brainchild, Charles Boyle.

It won't be long before Viper Trading Systems has as many negative posts on this forum two other world class rippoffs, Tsunami Trading Educators and Trading Zoo (defunct).

Viper Trading Systems is the current frontrunner to win Phantasmagoria's Vendor Hall of Shame award for 2009.

phantasmagoria,

Just curious: What do you mean, "Except for the auto-trader analysis" ?

-Tom

Perhaps I used poor syntax. What I meant to say was your auto-trader review was the first here.

phantasmagoria,

I have also made several posts about the Viper autotraders in another thread at [url]http://www.mypivots.com/Board/Topic/4527/1/automated-trading-systems-work[/url] that has generated some interesting dialog.

-Tom

Originally posted by phantasmagoria

Using the Viper "rules," I think the results will be better if one uses a 21 period for the trade chart.

phantasmagoria,

I just realized that my UnViper Trade template has a small error, and now I know what you meant by the above comment.

The LinReg period should be 21 not 34, to match the Viper "rules".

Sorry for the error. Unzip the attached for the corrected templates.

Also, you'll want to change the Session begins and Session ends times in the Chart Properties to match your time zone.

-Tom

I understand Viper's auto-trade strategy is fully subscribed; they are not taking any new clients.

Originally posted by phantasmagoria

I understand Viper's auto-trade strategy is fully subscribed; they are not taking any new clients.

I knew the RussellsViper was close to their max subscribers (it trades the TF) but I didn't know about the others that all trade the ES.

Maybe a waiting list will increase its perceived value.

They were offering ALL the systems in a bundled package for $299. Everyone wants TF, so the others are thrown in as a freebee.

It's remarkable to think that only a few months ago, Donahoo and Boyle couldn't make any money trading and now they are grossing $75K/month selling an auto-trade system developed by an unrelated programmer.

All three must be laughing as they read their PayPal accounts.

Originally posted by phantasmagoria

They were offering ALL the systems in a bundled package for $299. Everyone wants TF, so the others are thrown in as a freebee.

It's remarkable to think that only a few months ago, Donahoo and Boyle couldn't make any money trading and now they are grossing $75K/month selling an auto-trade system developed by an unrelated programmer.

All three must be laughing as they read their PayPal accounts.

Even though none of the Viper autotraders meet my standard of long term profitability with minimum drawdowns, the RussellsViper is the best of their bunch... if you started in November. Those that started then are doing well in the short term but they are blind to what it would have done 5-6 months ago because they offer no historical data, and who knows what it would have done before that, as my research only went back that far.

Their other autotraders are not as good as even the RussellsViper and the original Diamondback is the real snake being down $18k net since June and never above water.

So it is the feeding frenzy for a personal ATM that makes them money but their subscribers put their own accounts at risk over time. Controlling greed is requisite for success as a trader, whether discretionary or automated.

Spiffydude,

Attached are the UnViper templates you requested. The templates also need the attached indicators.

These are the latest UnViper files and setup instructions for NinjaTrader, all in one place. These instructions apply to this post only because this forum assigns a random filename to attached files.

1)Click on each file name in the post and save each one to your desktop.
2)Open Ninja and click on File, Utilities, Import NinjaScript...
3)Click Yes when asked if the file is from a trusted source.
4)Navigate to your Desktop.
5)Choose the filename beginning with "b3" and click Open.
6)Repeat #2,3,& 5 for filename beginning with "cf".
7)Double-click the filename beginning with "c0" and extract both .xml files to your \NinjaTrader 6.5\templates\Chart folder, found in your My Documents or Documents folder.
8)Click on File, New, Chart...
9)Select your instrument, days back, and preferred range bar size for the Trade chart, and choose the UnViper Trade template
10)Repeat #8&9 for the Trend chart, choosing the UnViper Trend template.

The default Trade chart range bar for ES is 5.
The default Trend chart range bar for ES is 7.
Range bar size will vary for other instruments, but the general rule is the Trend chart uses a range about 1.5 times the Trade chart.

-Tom

Thanks so much Tom - Greatly appreciated!!!! I have a system that I have working on that is similar to how this one functions - Will post here in the next couple of week... need to test it a little more but so far so good!!!! - Thanks again - Spiffydude

Sorry this reply is 2-years late but I just joined the forum.

I know from personal experience that GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar default to showing all users and all comments unless specifically disabled by the Host.

If they're saying what was reported that's a blatant lie.