eminiviper.com

I started this topic because some questions I asked and answers I got from cba33558 were getting lost in this rather extensive topic here:

http://www.mypivots.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2300&whichpage=30

We started this discussion on page 30 of that thread, and I thought I'd move it here so we can continue it (since no one took me up on my offer to start this thread). I'll cut and paste the three posts made after cba33558 posted a chart about eminiviper.com

From 6/8/09:

jimkane: Hey, cba. I checked out that EminiViper.com page. Very impressive. Seems like they don't have any losing days, or even losing trades (or do they not post those?). Is that so? If not, how many stop outs or false signals are you seeing on an average day? It doesn't mean much to me to see winners, I am more interested in the losers I have to take to get those winners. Also, are you the owner of EminiViper.com, or do you work for them? If not, what is your association? If I don't ask, that will likely be the first question from everyone else. Thanks.


cba33558: Hey Jim -

Thanks for visiting the Web site and offering your constructive questions and feedback...

The videos are intended to show the NQ Emini trades that are triggered by the system each day. Currently the system is designed to issue trade signals only the Nasdaq Emini. In addition to the Viper indicator, the system uses a combination of guidance charts and a trading chart that very rarely has a losing trade. With all of these constraints, it should be noted however, that there are not many signals that trigger in any given trading day. Depending on the volatility - usually one or two trades may trigger - a busy day would be 3 trades.

The entire trading system is not shown in the videos; however, all of the details regarding these trade signals are shown in an eBook and training videos. The actual trade signals themselves are analyzed in real-time in the live Webinars. The entire goal of this system was accuracy - not catching every trade.

In answer to your other question, I have been a trader for a little over 12 years now, I am a partner in the firm; and was involved extensively in developing, actively trading and back-testing the Viper system over the past year and a half.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I look forward to opportunity of respectfully participating in your Forum...


jimkane: Thanks for the response, cba. Wow, those are some incredibly impressive stats. Given these are intraday trend trades, it's almost incomprehensible to me. My style is intraday trend trading, and with the 3 to 5 to 1 or sometimes higher reward/risk profiles I'm happy anywhere in the 30% to 50% winners range.

I have a few more questions. Is there a way to follow along and see live trade signals the moment they develop, on a trial basis? The web site mentions visiting a live webinar for a day. Would one see live signals in time to act, or only after they have started? What if no signals are generated that day, can someone try another day? It's very hard to evaluate a system with a one-day trial, especially one that generates only a few signals.

Next, what is the difference between live webinars and live trading room, as far as signals given in real-time? Also, if one signs on to your room and gets all that training, does that do any good without the software? What is the cost of the license, since the website doesn't specify this? I'd love to follow along real-time for a period and evaluate your system, but I'm not sure you have any provisions where I could do that without laying out money first. Again, if I don't ask all these questions, someone else will. Since I'm probably the longest-winded character at this forum, I figured I'd just get the ball rolling. It's not often I hear about a system that has almost no losers at all.

Lastly, if we go much further with this discussion it may be appropriate to move it from this thread to one you or someone else could create in Trading Advisory Services.

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Originally posted by pt_emini

Viper had another very respectable outcome Friday. I was impressed with how well it handled the mid-morning triangle (chop zone).

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Are you a trial user?

I don't know much about this thread but the HULL green/yellow/red looks I identical and I mean the exact same as a forex trading indicator created over at Forex Factory called the cobra LOL!!! And they have had a copy right on it, it was like 4-6 traders scripters put a lot of time on this years ago. They even give it away for free, just ask that no one sells it....They even have the same Heiken Ashi parameters.


I was amazed that someone copied them almost stole there name too LOL. I couldn't post the chart from FXCM so I had to open a demo metatrader just to post this chart...this is like an hours worth of work but I think that if they copied them they ought to at least give it away for free....and its just wrong of the viper team, seems to close to be a coincidence.

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Originally posted by phantasmagoria

quote:

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Originally posted by pt_emini

Viper had another very respectable outcome Friday. I was impressed with how well it handled the mid-morning triangle (chop zone).

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Are you a trial user?

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No I am not a trial user. One of our chat room traders is a trial user and has been posting his results this past week.

I have been impressed with several aspects of the viper system, for example the very low drawdown.

CharterJoe - do you think it possible someone from the original Cobra forex development team is involved with this new Viper system ?

On the surface it appears someone did a direct translation of the original Cobra system for Ninja Trader. Hopefully it was the original developer.

pt,

I have no idea what so ever....the other thread on FF has 13,259 replies and 1,763,281 views. If one was going to sell the system it does not make much since to offer it for free over there. Here is an exert from the cobra manual

This is freeware and I will make use of international laws if I see this system selling in Ebay or elsewhere. We spent endless hours, days and weeks on fining this system and give it away for free personal use, it is dirty to copy and sell the idea and work from someone else.

I don't see why they would give it away to FX traders and charge futures traders.

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Originally posted by pt_emini


On the surface it appears someone did a direct translation of the original Cobra system for Ninja Trader. Hopefully it was the original developer.

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Doubt it. This sort of thing goes on all the time. There are a handful of "internet marketers" that troll the various forums looking for indicators and systems they can repackage to newbies.

While it may be unethical, especially when they try to pass things off as their own, it isn't illegal unless the indicator is expressly copyrighted. Most of the time if you read about a strategy or an indicator on a forum it obviously isn't copyrighted but written by someone that just wants to help other traders.

This sort of thing will always go on, as long as there is a market full of newbies that get stars in their eyes when they hear about the millions of dollars they'll make in their very first month of trading with the newest "secret" indicator or strategy.

Traders, especially new ones, are people that will spend lots of money to gain an edge. As long as this is true there will always be marketers looking to target the market and they'll always go to the forums to find their product. Most of them will never even trade themselves.

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Originally posted by pt_emini

quote:

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Originally posted by phantasmagoria

quote:

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Originally posted by pt_emini

Viper had another very respectable outcome Friday. I was impressed with how well it handled the mid-morning triangle (chop zone).

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Are you a trial user?

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I have been impressed with several aspects of the viper system, for example the very low drawdown.

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The drawdown is fixed at 9 ticks which is more than the targets. What's so impressive of that for a system that scalps?

Isn't PT referring to the drawdown of the account, not the per losing trade 'drawdown'? Mathematically (and theoretically), a system could risk twice as much as it as it gains per trade, and if it wins over 66.67% it would be profitable. If the winning percentage was like 90% (that's why I said 'theoretically' above, since this percentage now makes this a mathematical discussion and not one of the real world of trading), it would have a very low drawdown, and a horrible reward/risk. You could even have a system that risks 50 ticks and has a low drawdown, because the reward could be 150 ticks (say in a swing trading or trend following system), and the winning precentage high (again, theoretically and not realistically). I guess my point is, drawdown has little to do with initial stop size. It has to do with how much the equity curve 'checks back' against you as a function of its usual slope.

Hmmm, I can hear PT now: 'Jim, we've both done so much work in here trying to discuss what we think are potentially realistic expected values (reward/risk combined with win/loss percentages), I wish you wouldn't choose unrealistic examples to make good mathematical points, because maybe some people see those numbers and forget at some point that they were just extreme theoretical examples chosen to make a greater point.' That point is well taken, PT, if I did put the words correctly into your mouth there. So, everyone, I am really just trying to make a point when I choose such extremes, and that should be taken in the proper context. How's that sound, PT?

Jim is correct, I was referring to the equity curve drawdown for the week, not the stop loss for any individual trade result or the risk/reward ratio. Because the system uses a tight stop loss and this past week the system had a relatively high win percentage, and the system did not hit any significant losing streaks, the resulting drawdown for this past week was small.

My comment / observation is anecdotal at best, because it pertains to one week of trading results produced by one trial member testing the viper system. One week of results carries no meaningful statistical significance. I have no idea where this past week falls within the spectrum of results produced by the viper system.

Sorry this reply is 2-years late but I just joined the forum.

I know from personal experience that GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar default to showing all users and all comments unless specifically disabled by the Host.

If they're saying what was reported that's a blatant lie.