eminiviper.com

I started this topic because some questions I asked and answers I got from cba33558 were getting lost in this rather extensive topic here:

http://www.mypivots.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2300&whichpage=30

We started this discussion on page 30 of that thread, and I thought I'd move it here so we can continue it (since no one took me up on my offer to start this thread). I'll cut and paste the three posts made after cba33558 posted a chart about eminiviper.com

From 6/8/09:

jimkane: Hey, cba. I checked out that EminiViper.com page. Very impressive. Seems like they don't have any losing days, or even losing trades (or do they not post those?). Is that so? If not, how many stop outs or false signals are you seeing on an average day? It doesn't mean much to me to see winners, I am more interested in the losers I have to take to get those winners. Also, are you the owner of EminiViper.com, or do you work for them? If not, what is your association? If I don't ask, that will likely be the first question from everyone else. Thanks.


cba33558: Hey Jim -

Thanks for visiting the Web site and offering your constructive questions and feedback...

The videos are intended to show the NQ Emini trades that are triggered by the system each day. Currently the system is designed to issue trade signals only the Nasdaq Emini. In addition to the Viper indicator, the system uses a combination of guidance charts and a trading chart that very rarely has a losing trade. With all of these constraints, it should be noted however, that there are not many signals that trigger in any given trading day. Depending on the volatility - usually one or two trades may trigger - a busy day would be 3 trades.

The entire trading system is not shown in the videos; however, all of the details regarding these trade signals are shown in an eBook and training videos. The actual trade signals themselves are analyzed in real-time in the live Webinars. The entire goal of this system was accuracy - not catching every trade.

In answer to your other question, I have been a trader for a little over 12 years now, I am a partner in the firm; and was involved extensively in developing, actively trading and back-testing the Viper system over the past year and a half.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I look forward to opportunity of respectfully participating in your Forum...


jimkane: Thanks for the response, cba. Wow, those are some incredibly impressive stats. Given these are intraday trend trades, it's almost incomprehensible to me. My style is intraday trend trading, and with the 3 to 5 to 1 or sometimes higher reward/risk profiles I'm happy anywhere in the 30% to 50% winners range.

I have a few more questions. Is there a way to follow along and see live trade signals the moment they develop, on a trial basis? The web site mentions visiting a live webinar for a day. Would one see live signals in time to act, or only after they have started? What if no signals are generated that day, can someone try another day? It's very hard to evaluate a system with a one-day trial, especially one that generates only a few signals.

Next, what is the difference between live webinars and live trading room, as far as signals given in real-time? Also, if one signs on to your room and gets all that training, does that do any good without the software? What is the cost of the license, since the website doesn't specify this? I'd love to follow along real-time for a period and evaluate your system, but I'm not sure you have any provisions where I could do that without laying out money first. Again, if I don't ask all these questions, someone else will. Since I'm probably the longest-winded character at this forum, I figured I'd just get the ball rolling. It's not often I hear about a system that has almost no losers at all.

Lastly, if we go much further with this discussion it may be appropriate to move it from this thread to one you or someone else could create in Trading Advisory Services.

For a system that supposedly does not work, you guys are sure trying to duplicate it. I am glad I found them, their webinars are top notch and they sure know a lot about trading.

Originally posted by Butthead

For a system that supposedly does not work, you guys are sure trying to duplicate it. I am glad I found them, their webinars are top notch and they sure know a lot about trading.

Butthead,

Folks want to duplicate Viper's indicators because they feel they have some value but are not worth $99/mo since they are merely repackaged and renamed indicators that are available elsewhere for free. Real or duplicated, both are worthless by themselves without your own trading skills.

The added value of their webinars is minimal because the only one who is gracious and has anything useful to say is Gary Donahoo who isn't given much airtime. Charles Boyle is condescending and likes to hear himself talk. Rich Staiton, the programmer, is smug regarding his autotraders. They can't decide who's going to talk about what when and they frequently switch screens between the three. When they are reviewing the day's price action, using the Viper colors that will repaint two segments back, the trades taken or not are totally hindsight. I don't consider that top-notch.

That's not to say you won't learn something about trading from them, but the main thing I learned is that I don't need them.

-Tom

Simply counter trade whatever these parasites are offering...you will make money...even assist the gullible to pay for the cost of their system

Originally posted by tomgilb

Originally posted by Butthead

For a system that supposedly does not work, you guys are sure trying to duplicate it. I am glad I found them, their webinars are top notch and they sure know a lot about trading.

That's not to say you won't learn something about trading from them, but the main thing I learned is that I don't need them.

-Tom

The main thing I learned from them is snakeoil, guerrilla marketing tactics trump the common sense of aspiring traders who want instant financial gratification.

Thanks to all that have contributed to this topic. Picked up on it at Big Mike Trading and downloaded the material. Then I started to follow at MyPivots. The price was much better than from Viper!!

Thanks
Jimbob

The latest from the viper boys, the viper3:

Love all the pretty colors and lines on all the charts. I'm just waiting for deliberation and convo on Viper 4 ... then Viper 5 etc. Perhaps there's good enough info provided by folks on this site to closely replicate the indicators and signals. A lot cheaper "education" for a moving target in the unending evolution of just another garden variety trading approach.

After reading thru the entire thread and with past experience in this arena, I think at best there are simply ideas that could be played with. In the end, if you already have a decent or semi-decent trading method or strategy, then this is merely another chance to see how folks without documentation of profit promote a way for a fee to line their pockets with as many Ben Franklins as possible.

It's almost silly if it weren't so serious ... a trader risking money in the market and paying for something that's supposed to provide you a consistently profitable methodology ... until the next version/update and then the next evolution/generation etc. etc. etc.

Sorry, guess I'm venting on how many pages and posts are seriously devoted to another vendor offering freakin' fee for service who can't trade their way out of a wet paper bag with their own sh@t. And it irritates me to all hell that they are preying upon folks new to trading or folks who are struggling and looking for genuine help.

I'm done blathering now ... but can't help but leave the message that this and most similar vendors are a dry well ... and will cost a trader not only the vendor fee ... but also the following losses incurred over the next few months or years. Ugh!!!

Read the whole thread to get a solid compass reading on the truth!

That system is just the last Viper rendition running on NT 7, which is still in beta testing. One chart instead of two.

Same old wine in a brand new bottle, albeit easier on the eyes.

Originally posted by jimbob42

Thanks to all that have contributed to this topic. Picked up on it at Big Mike Trading and downloaded the material. Then I started to follow at MyPivots. The price was much better than from Viper!!

Thanks
Jimbob

you're new to these posts, and so am I,

I just got referred from BMT also,

but never noticed what material that you downloaded, please pm me, if pm exists on these threads, or post link backward to the page and segment within BMT that offers a download of whatever Viper is supposed to be,

that would be helpful, and thanks in advance

cheers

Oh, some on the BMT threads say that the line is OBV using size 4 or size 6 to magnify,

others say its a linear regression line that changes color based on rising, sideways, falling prices,

others say that its the ADXVMA or something similar such as a compound indicator,

its fascinating that as soon as they released their viper III, its posted on these two threads

Originally posted by jimbob42

Thanks to all that have contributed to this topic. Picked up on it at Big Mike Trading and downloaded the material. Then I started to follow at MyPivots. The price was much better than from Viper!!

Thanks
Jimbob

you're new to these posts, and so am I,

I just got referred from BMT also,

but never noticed what material that you downloaded, please pm me, if pm exists on these threads, or post link backward to the page and segment within BMT that offers a download of whatever Viper is supposed to be,

that would be helpful, and thanks in advance

cheers

Oh, some on the BMT threads say that the line is OBV using size 4 or size 6 to magnify,

others say its a linear regression line that changes color based on rising, sideways, falling prices,

others say that its the ADXVMA or something similar such as a compound indicator,

its fascinating that as soon as they released their viper III, its posted on these two threads

Sorry this reply is 2-years late but I just joined the forum.

I know from personal experience that GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar default to showing all users and all comments unless specifically disabled by the Host.

If they're saying what was reported that's a blatant lie.