eminiviper.com

I started this topic because some questions I asked and answers I got from cba33558 were getting lost in this rather extensive topic here:

http://www.mypivots.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2300&whichpage=30

We started this discussion on page 30 of that thread, and I thought I'd move it here so we can continue it (since no one took me up on my offer to start this thread). I'll cut and paste the three posts made after cba33558 posted a chart about eminiviper.com

From 6/8/09:

jimkane: Hey, cba. I checked out that EminiViper.com page. Very impressive. Seems like they don't have any losing days, or even losing trades (or do they not post those?). Is that so? If not, how many stop outs or false signals are you seeing on an average day? It doesn't mean much to me to see winners, I am more interested in the losers I have to take to get those winners. Also, are you the owner of EminiViper.com, or do you work for them? If not, what is your association? If I don't ask, that will likely be the first question from everyone else. Thanks.


cba33558: Hey Jim -

Thanks for visiting the Web site and offering your constructive questions and feedback...

The videos are intended to show the NQ Emini trades that are triggered by the system each day. Currently the system is designed to issue trade signals only the Nasdaq Emini. In addition to the Viper indicator, the system uses a combination of guidance charts and a trading chart that very rarely has a losing trade. With all of these constraints, it should be noted however, that there are not many signals that trigger in any given trading day. Depending on the volatility - usually one or two trades may trigger - a busy day would be 3 trades.

The entire trading system is not shown in the videos; however, all of the details regarding these trade signals are shown in an eBook and training videos. The actual trade signals themselves are analyzed in real-time in the live Webinars. The entire goal of this system was accuracy - not catching every trade.

In answer to your other question, I have been a trader for a little over 12 years now, I am a partner in the firm; and was involved extensively in developing, actively trading and back-testing the Viper system over the past year and a half.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I look forward to opportunity of respectfully participating in your Forum...


jimkane: Thanks for the response, cba. Wow, those are some incredibly impressive stats. Given these are intraday trend trades, it's almost incomprehensible to me. My style is intraday trend trading, and with the 3 to 5 to 1 or sometimes higher reward/risk profiles I'm happy anywhere in the 30% to 50% winners range.

I have a few more questions. Is there a way to follow along and see live trade signals the moment they develop, on a trial basis? The web site mentions visiting a live webinar for a day. Would one see live signals in time to act, or only after they have started? What if no signals are generated that day, can someone try another day? It's very hard to evaluate a system with a one-day trial, especially one that generates only a few signals.

Next, what is the difference between live webinars and live trading room, as far as signals given in real-time? Also, if one signs on to your room and gets all that training, does that do any good without the software? What is the cost of the license, since the website doesn't specify this? I'd love to follow along real-time for a period and evaluate your system, but I'm not sure you have any provisions where I could do that without laying out money first. Again, if I don't ask all these questions, someone else will. Since I'm probably the longest-winded character at this forum, I figured I'd just get the ball rolling. It's not often I hear about a system that has almost no losers at all.

Lastly, if we go much further with this discussion it may be appropriate to move it from this thread to one you or someone else could create in Trading Advisory Services.

quote:

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Originally posted by thetaxman

I was not really referring to the Auto-trader system being developed. I was referring to the manual Viper system that was the original product being advertised. No historical results have been produced nor has a live demonstration of the system, with the rules as written, been given. I am not saying that the Viper system is not valid, nor am I saying that Charles and Gary are less than honest. All I am suggesting is that they could put the criticism to rest and likely gain new customers by actually demonstrating that the system performs for them the way they say it does. Merely posting marked up charts after the day is done is not a demonstration of the effectiveness of the system any more than me picking the winner of the World Series after game 7 is over.

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rain, I said before these guys can't trade, therefore they can't demonstrate except after the fact. The one attempt they made to record live trades resulted in Mr. Boyle chasing a Russell entry 5 points after Viper gave the signal. If they trade, they are one lot players who shake in the socks when 2 contracts are on the line.

I find it amusing they create an auto trade system with a three car position and have an initial stop of 3 points--$450 at risk-- something they could never do live.

As far as the manual Viper goes, they have all but abandoned it for the auto-trade product, so don't hold your breath for any energy to be put into that.

I noticed from the chart that 3 longs were exited all before the market began to turn (around 14:42). According to rules I'd seen you exit once a bar closed below/above the Viper. It's great when you can read the market's mind. Maybe Carnac the Magnificent still lives.

To be fair, I think we should direct our comments to the manual Viper system since the Auto-trade is still a work in progress. My request to Gary and Charles is to demonstrate that they actually trade the manual system successfully by following their published rules. We will have more than enough opportunity to critique the Auto method when it is finished.

quote:

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Originally posted by thetaxman

To be fair, I think we should direct our comments to the manual Viper system since the Auto-trade is still a work in progress. My request to Gary and Charles is to demonstrate that they actually trade the manual system successfully by following their published rules. We will have more than enough opportunity to critique the Auto method when it is finished.

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They won't do it because they can't, so don't hold your breath waiting.

Hi Friends

update on the testing of Viper's EminiAutoESBeta strategy .

Yeasterday, was similar to a vacation day so no comments .

My trial has expired yeasterday at midnight so no way to work in progress .

I contact Mr. Gary, that advise me all trial are ended for now .

It seems that within this week or beginning next we will have a new trial: I think the strategy will be updated with reference to the testing results.

This last words are my opinion and nothing more .

So I'll wait to receive further news about and my activity regarding this strategy is, at the moment, suspended .

Asap I'll be in the position to give more and new details I will take care to inform you all: this will also happen if news will not arrive at all in an acceptable time frame, is well intended. Just to close the circle .

Herewith attached the image of the message I got this morning, my time, when I started the strategy in my Ninja Trader ES chart .

Thank you for now

Best regards

Alinghy

You posted one full day of trades (which was much appreciated) and then they pulled the plug. So, your trial was a whopping day and some change. That may be the world's shortest beta test! These clowns from Viper crack me up.

for phantasmagoria

I had the availability of the trial from Monday last week but not the time to start immediately testing it, also due the fact it was the first time I have seen this strategy in argument, so my first real day test, after getting confidence with settings and whatever, was friday past .

The forecasted time frame was one week. What I expected was to get, as betatester, another week, but anyone that is inside things, knows very well that the proper test time could be no less of one month, to can express a basic opinion.

that's it

regards
Alinghy

alinghy - dont fret just use the same settings phantasmagoria posted earlier and do your own viper testing - and the price is very reasonable, free

'why buy something when you can get it for free'...quote, nyc divorce lawyer

Didn't they have an orientation for beta testers so you could start trading right away?

If the "manual" Viper was any indication of how this vendor launches products, the auto system will have many iterations in a very short timeframe. Welcome to the wonderful word of system curve fitting.

quote:

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Originally posted by Alinghy

for phantasmagoria

I had the availability of the trial from Monday last week but not the time to start immediately testing it, also due the fact it was the first time I have seen this strategy in argument, so my first real day test, after getting confidence with settings and whatever, was friday past .

The forecasted time frame was one week. What I expected was to get, as betatester, another week, but anyone that is inside things, knows very well that the proper test time could be no less of one month, to can express a basic opinion.

that's it

regards
Alinghy

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i registered with them already quite some time ago as a tester, and also registered as an autotrade tester, but never received the autotrader beta and atually was surprised people here have it. checked mailbox and junk and noticed havent got anything from them in a while.
re-registered under a 2nd email address and i can see they seem to have a new set of indicators avaialbe. looks like they have been getting rid of people not fully subscribing?

Sorry this reply is 2-years late but I just joined the forum.

I know from personal experience that GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar default to showing all users and all comments unless specifically disabled by the Host.

If they're saying what was reported that's a blatant lie.