Does anyone really make money trading futures?

Does anyone really make money trading futures?

I am just wondering.

I know I don't. I have tried all the indicators and the chat room gurus, and none of them make money.

I have a suspicion that a lot of the chat rooms for emini trading are just for hobbyists and market enthusiasts and not for serious traders trying to make a business out of trading.

For any new traders out there please be very cautious of paying anyone to mentor you or signing up for training or a chat room. From what I have seen the only people making money in these deals is the mentor, the chat room owner or the author of the training manual.

I would love to hear from you if you are a successful trader making 20% off your account or better over the past year. I know only 5 to 10 percent of traders are supposed to be successful, but I am beginning to think that zero percent of traders are successful over the long haul. Certainly anyone can have a streak of luck and rack up a few good months where they dramatically increase their account size, but these people are normally big risk takers and eventually they blow out their accounts by taking the exact same risks that help double their accounts in the first place.

Thanks in advance for any response.

Red ... dude, ya gotta sign up for that room before it's full and you're locked out buddy. Gambling? Pshaaaah! I've had it @ss-backwards this whole time thinking one or two trades for a couple of points was cool.

Now ya got me thinkin' ... WOW ... I can actually trade 53 times and knock out a tick. If I trade 54 times do I make 12.51? If so, I'm all in and will do the funky monkey and get MJ's chimp (bubbles) to bang on my keyboard "buy" and "sell" buttons after injecting him with meth or some variant of amphetamine plus a keg of cappuccino pre-mkt. Hope that little hairy bastard is still alive. Woooot!

I'm liking my odds here. It reminds me of a trading buddy (true story) who had his cat step on one of his hotkey F-key buttons when he wasn't paying attention. Problem was that kitty executed a 1000 share trade that didn't work out - a loss.

Or ... I could simply put out two orders going high bid and low offer. Get my tick and start a powerball style trading room ... what should I charge? I'm thinking Chimp Chat Trading Forum could rank high on google?!? Okay, I'm done with my inane/semi-insane blather.

I still have issues with the proposition that a bunch of monkeys could bang out all of Shakespear's works on typewriters if given enough time (ie. infinity). Ergo, no Shakespearian vendor can help anyone bang out a profit from the markets. Please fill me in on any flaw in that logic other than it being a bright neon pro-glow red herring.

His broker just ordered a new Maserati Quattroporte



Is it better to do fifty one lot trades or one fifty lot trade ?

Dang, what a bunch of sad sacks! Yes, you can make a very good living trading. Yes, it takes alot of screen-time and emotional energy. For me the turning point came with learning how to develope a sense of direction for the day. For this, I subscribed to a couple of services that provided commentary. I also learned market profile, not to the enth degree but enough for me to recognize direction. Also I learned how to use longer timeframe charts and faster timeframe entries. If all you do is look at 1-5 minute charts, IMO, you are doomed to failure. Also I have observed that many would-be traders keep making the same mistakes over and over without sim trading ideas first. My final word here is that you must bekieve in yourself and in your ability to succeed, and that you must have a written plan for success.
Mine was what I needed to learn in order to succeed, ie; market profile, tape reading skills, charting skills. (not neccessarily in order), then went about learning the things I needed to know so I could have confidence in my abilities.

Greg,

You are absolutely right. only 1 out of 100 can make money by trading itself. The so called analysts (tip providers) will have failed terribly
trying to trade for themselves. the moment he fails in trading he turns out to be an analyst.
The most apt way of describing an analyst according to me is " A person trying to make money by selling knowledge rather than using it"
or else a flap actor turned a director. Trading is like acting! it has to come from within.
No matter how good a director is he can't make an actor act good, likewise all these systems indicators.... you are referring are directors only and you as a trader
is an actor and how you perform is ultimately down to you.
Always remember, if some thing is working out for some one it will never be revealed, on the other hand every trade secret is for sale did never work for some so the reason
is coming out. Be aware of the terms TIPS, SUBSCRIPTIONS, Follow the markets like a snake you will make money,

yes but not with indicators Order flow analysas is the key

Hey guys,

This is William from NYC. I've been a trader in FX for over 9 years and I've had some highs and lows.

I've been considering a branching out into Binary for the best part of a year now but never saw anything to tilt me over the edge. I honestly say it was worth the wait to do a thorough research and find interesting profit making strategies and formulas.

Of course some of us make profits. The key is controlling losses and let winners run. Small losses and bigger winners everyday and you will have success. My problem has been entry points, but after I finally got confident, they are no longer a problem.

I belong to a chat room, but it is not the type to call out trades. They don't do that. They are there for conversation and banter. It makes the day more fun. The moderator never calls out trades. He may mention a setup that is coming up but he doesn't trade.

Good Luck

Trading does make money......But, when someone generalizes it, then we know that 91% don't make money and quit the business after the 1st 12 months. So, the question is are 'we' part of the 9% club? I am trying hard to be one. To be part of the 9% club, I have done the following:

1. Started developing a Trading Plan by educating myself, as I am going to college for some time. This was June'2012.
2. By July-2103, I had a collection of ideas, organized my thinking, and pulled it all together into a Trading Strategy that was part of a macro Trading Plan.
3. By Oct-2013, I had developed a system that I was ready to put to test.
4. In that same time period (Q4), I learned about Futures, and migrated my thinking from stock trading to Futures Trading.
5. In Jan'2014, I started doing SIM trading, since the SW and the System was setup with tick based demo data from dual sources.
6. As of Mar'2014, I started implementing my Disciplined Rule Set as a test with real money account.
7. Report as of April 25th, is about $9.7K in net-profits on a $24K account (starting value). 41 Wins / 4 Losing trades.
8. Ready to step-up the game with 2 contracts instead of 1, and letting my runner run.
9. All of the above was in TF and NQ. I should have stuck to TF since I am really enjoying it very much.
10. None of the above was by sheer luck, since while working full time, I spend approx 40 hours a week from June-2012 and still putting in 40 hours a week, including a couple of hours of trading in the AM.
11. I have a multi-chapter Trading Plan (personalized), Affirmations, Daily Routine Checklist, Trading Strategy, Critical Success Factors, Patterns of Winning Traders, Disaster Recovery Plans, Dual Brokers, Dual Internet Connections, Tablet / Phablet, Hotline to Traders (both) and many other elements.
12 Lastly, and most importantly, I have been through many Psychological Quizzes and I review them often. Built a lot of Trading Cards (index) pasted all over my Dual Monitor system.

I just joined this forum today, and I have never shared any of the above before. None of it is for sale or even disclosure. Just take this as hints of direction of the path I develop. If in Jan'2015, I am still trading and make $8K in Dec'2014, then I am part of the 9% Club. That is the documented goal, and my definition of 'success'. I need an annualized income of $96K from this business to make all of this effort worth it. If it does not work out to this extent, then I go back to putting more focus on my sales career and real esate rentals (already have both in my pocket right now).

Hope someone can gleam something out of all of the typing I have done. Best of luck out there. It is a Hunter or Hunted world (my 1st index card in the Affirmations!).

Bruce

hi there,

Sure would love to see a copy of your trade logs. This would bring proof to the table. You can block out the personal information.

John14

I was passing through and saw this was a "Hot Topic". A very simple and truthful answer to the original question is Yes. There are many people who make money trading Futures. There are also many people who lose money trading Futures. Unfortunately, the latter category is certainly the most highly populated. I speak with many traders every day. I host a daily radio program now in its 9th year, and I also would fall under the category of vendor, educator, or whatever the proper term is for this board. If my posting on this board violates any policy I ask that the moderator please notify me and remove this post.

I'm posting an answer not to sell anything, but to offer up my own life as a cautionary tale. Again, as both a trader, a talk show host, and an educator, I simply want to encourage any new trader to get an education before trading real money. There are many programs, systems and methodologies to choose from. More complicated and more expensive, does not necessarily mean "mo better". In fact, some of the best things I ever learned, I learned for free. Going it alone, is a lonely and lengthy way to go. Getting hooked up with a Grumpy Guru is a painful way to go. Find someone you can talk to and really learn from.

When you're new it's very hard to know who's legit and who's selling snake oil. My best suggestion is put away your checkbook for a while and get to know some other traders. Make some friends here on this board. If you show yourself to be genuine and not just looking to make a quick buck, someone here might take you under their wing and try to point you in the right direction. Stay away from outrageous claims. Ask for references. Ask for some type of trial and don't be in a rush. Overnight riches... they simply don't happen.

This message board has been around a long time and if you're patient, you'll find someone here. Of course, you have to vet them, just like you have to vet the educator. It's a difficult sticky, troublesome, worrisome business. I wish it weren't true, but it is. Perhaps reaching out to the moderators or owners of the board would a good place to start. You might be surprised at the results you get. In a private message or email or phone call, they might even recommend someone who doesn't advertise here.

Trading's not easy. If it were.... well everybody would do it right? In fact a good place to start is with a self inventory where you ask yourself why you even want to become a trader. Talk to your broker if you have one, see who he recommends as a trainer or coach. Maybe the firm you have an account with even offers some basic training. I do know from my own personal life and from the lives of the people I speak to daily, the #1 killer is unrealistic expectations. #2 is people who have philanthropic plans. They've sold a business, inherited money, or simply been wonderfully successful in some other field and they see trading as a way to put that money to work and make the world a better place. Gosh I wish that worked!

The world would truly be a better place if every trader with a big heart could succeed. Unfortunately, the market treats everyone the same. You can be the meanest, nastiest, greediest, you know what, that ever walked the face of the earth, but if you've learned how to trade, possess patience and discipline, the market will reward you generously. If on the other hand, you have a heart the size of Texas, but have not learned to read a chart and do not possess the character traits I mentioned... not only will you never do good works with your profits, you'll simply fail. How long it takes will only be a matter of time based on how aggressive or foolish you are. Please be careful. Make friends. Get professional help and advice.

Back to the original question for one last comment, YES it can be done... but the odds are against you. You must figure out a way to change that. As long as the odds are against you, you are a gambler and over time you will lose. If you can learn a way to put the odds in your favor, you are no longer a gambler, you are now a businessman executing his business plan.

Vegas is filled with 2 kinds of people, gamblers and businessmen. One kind builds big, brightly lit buildings while the other kind limps back home 'till they can rustle up another stake. Guess whose who... Pretty easy guess right? What separates the 2? A business plan and the ability to think in probabilities. That's all. Nothing more and nothing less. Your key to success in learning to think in probabilities and formulating a business plan. (hint: counting cards is not a business plan)

I do wish you and every other aspiring trader the very best. Start with the owners of this forum and see what help, advice or direction they can give you.

I'm sure after my lengthy post others will chime in and hopefully in that group you will find your mentor. Just be careful. As Monk would say, "It's a jungle out there".

I consistently profit from futures/futures options, but it took me a long time to figure out the best way for me to do so.

While a set of trading rules is very important, I have found that it is just as, maybe even MORE important, to develop "trading callouses" from getting your butt handed to you repeatedly along the way.

Here's the thing: Any set of rules will only work until they don't. It is normal human psychology that there will come a time (again and again) where you deviate from the rules because A) you have had a string of losses, B) you have had a string of wins and now you have a loss and can't believe you're really supposed to "lose this one," C) you get greedy, D) you get scared for whatever reason, or E) any one of a thousand other things that will cause you to screw up.

I had ups and downs for many years until I thought I had it figured out and had a couple of years of really solid profits. I had my own private island picked out :) (not really, but I did have a condo in mind O/N an island). Then came the financial crisis of 2008 and I learned that while I had a generally good strategy, because times were good I had not developed an appropriate risk control system.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars later... (and that didn't take long at all!) I learned the hard way that my strategy was woefully inadequate when the unexpected happened. It took me a while to brush myself off, but eventually I did.

Since sometime in 2009 my cumulative returns are somewhere around 450%. Over the past 9 years I've found that proper risk control continues to be where I tend to fall short, so I've had some choppiness during this time. About two years ago I tightened things up some more to try to make for a smoother equity curve... this mean that, theoretically, my losing months should NOT be as large as in the past, but my winning months will also not be as large as they were in the past.

That's okay though -- even my cumulative success over the past 9-10 years, when averaged out by month, comes to < 2% a month. I suspect that 2% a month, long term, is about where I'll stay, but the ride should just be smoother along the way.

A return like that may or may not be enough for a particular person--it is for me--but keep in mind if you want to shoot for the stars there's a really good chance you're going to eventually crash land back on earth. It really does come down to being adequately capitalized and having a reasonable return be "enough" for you. By all means, trade even with a small account, because you need that experience to get to the point where you'll know what you're doing when you have the larger account. Just don't expect to turn a tiny account into a massive one along the way or you will probably be disappointed.

-PDG