Does anyone really make money trading futures?

Does anyone really make money trading futures?

I am just wondering.

I know I don't. I have tried all the indicators and the chat room gurus, and none of them make money.

I have a suspicion that a lot of the chat rooms for emini trading are just for hobbyists and market enthusiasts and not for serious traders trying to make a business out of trading.

For any new traders out there please be very cautious of paying anyone to mentor you or signing up for training or a chat room. From what I have seen the only people making money in these deals is the mentor, the chat room owner or the author of the training manual.

I would love to hear from you if you are a successful trader making 20% off your account or better over the past year. I know only 5 to 10 percent of traders are supposed to be successful, but I am beginning to think that zero percent of traders are successful over the long haul. Certainly anyone can have a streak of luck and rack up a few good months where they dramatically increase their account size, but these people are normally big risk takers and eventually they blow out their accounts by taking the exact same risks that help double their accounts in the first place.

Thanks in advance for any response.

day trading,

I was in the room and it seemed like Fred had a good day, but again the trades were not clear to me as the first day, unsure about Hunteone he had problems with his mic again I guess.

But the funny thing is that Fred / Hunterone both want people who call trades in the room to type in their buys and stops, but they do not hold themselves to same stress test, which makes you think.....

Pips said "just look at a chart"
I have been watching the market for the past 4 months religiously from open to close and a little after hours only missing the day after TG(I did catch open on that day). I have to respectfully diagree with pips on the just look at the charts part. I have given my dues unfortunately and looking for a comeback but to look at a dry chart with no movement isnt going to teach you much about the reaction, like when you take that trade and it rolls 200$ against you and then comes back and gives you 50$-100$ profit(1 contract of course)all in the same 5 minute candle. Hindsight is always 20/20 and you could look at a dry chart and say ok...I would short/long that and would have made money. However the factor in of the psychological effect if you do let it ride while your in a cold sweat, or the 1-1.75 pt stop that ticks you off so bad cause it turned back around in your favor and you would have been on the + side is not in that dry chart. I think Im learning more SLOWLY day by day by watching it how it MOVES. I trade my live on one screen and my paper on my the other. They are with the same company and I would say its a pretty good paper account cause it does move parallel with my lvie...no lag or delay. Trigger pulling is the toughest now days...that sting hurt. But why am I here typing this right now...simple I WANT TO LEARN. I want to learn how to better read the market, trade the market, and live off the market. I have heard alot of poeple say "all you have to do is this...or I do that and thats all that needs to be done and you dont have to pay for it." If your making money CONSISTANTLY...then its working for you...But what is "IT." So far I have heard alot of talk. Do I expect anything for free...I expect you to not give me anything for free...But if you want to be gratious enough to throw someone a bone and say "this is what I do, this is how I see it, you may not see it the same way but here it is." Im confident that with a piece of Bob's method and Frank's method, and Joe Shmoe's method people will be able to see things for themselves and the water will clear more. From what I have heard....nobody trades someone elses method...its always someone elses mixed with their own to be something unique. So if anyone wants to be gratious and shed light on something I or any other newbie hasn't seen I'm open.
Now about hunter...I first listened to him call by himself the last session before he was charging. I was quoted a price and said I couldnt do it. If I was to give a # I would say his trades that day were round about 65-75%...This Monday -probably about 30-40% (something to do with overnight action screwed up his charts) Freds were off on Monday too...but his were better. Tuesday...Best day yet...about 75-80% were good. Freds were about the same. Today-Wednesday...not as good...I noticed probably about 60% ish. Hunter had hardware problems that kept him out most of the day. I know these trades cause I was trading them on my paper..the ones I could clearly hear, "long/short, stop 'x', covered, flat." I think Voodoo is well...Voodoo. Its good to call someone out...but he got after them with an unnecessary vengence...I like to give people more credit to start. A smart person can sniff a bad deal out without all the anger...unless he might be a little bitter he couldnt afford the price Hunter quoted either? None the less... I havent taken any live trades from there calls but I appreciate these guys freely calling what they see real time and so far, not asking for anything. I hope by watching and listening to them I might learn a thing or two. If there is anyone that has been in there open to close the last three days...other than me, speak up and give your account. The only one I know of that has posted HERE thus far is Bakrob...and I notice him because he participates. Anybody that says something without being there is...well...just speculating. Today I and a few others asked Fred...the other guy with Hunter, a few questions after Market closed...and he seemed like he knew some stuff and also seemed like a genuine character..."SEEMS"! In my opinion.
Well with that said...

.............FLAME SUIT.........ON!!!!!!!

Thanks for the comments ThBrtmn. Very constructive and proactive. I also agree with your comments about a dry chart not being that great - you have to be looking at a dynamic hard right edge and "taking" a position against it. One thing that I've mentioned here before and that I've found to be helpful is using the playback feature of the charting system that I use (eSignal) outside of market hours. With eSignal you can download up to 10 trading days of tick data and save it to a file and over time you can collect a large repository of tick data which you can play back after the market, on weekends and on holidays. This allows you to look at a dynamic chart unfolding in front of you and practice trading. You can also speed the chart up. I think that eSignal allows up to 200 times speed so 200 seconds compressed into 1 second. eSignal also allows you to paper trade against the playback chart and keeps track of your score for you. It's almost like an arcade game that you can play in the evenings and practice at getting a better "score" each time with the side effect of becoming a better trader as a result. You can think of different indicators that you use with the chart as different weapons that you can choose from when playing your favorite shoot-em-up.

quote:

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Originally posted by day trading

One thing that I've mentioned here before and that I've found to be helpful is using the playback feature of the charting system that I use (eSignal)

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No question about it ... that is a great feature and the one reason why I have considered ESignal.

To get around it .. I backtest my TradeStation setups with the right side of the chart off the edge of my screen so I can't see it. I select data from prior years (months etc.) and then trade my setup 1 bar at a time and move it over using the pointer tracking feature.

This allows me to check my stategy without the bias of seeing the chart.

Thanks DT...I did not know that a post market moving day chart was available...and being able to trade it to boot. Sounds like a good setup. Forgot to add....someone mentioned a worry with Paltalk. I have never used paltalk till the first "Call Session" with hunter before he charged. I work in computers and am always leary about downloading a new program. I have two hard drives in my pc, one running xp the other vista. I usually download anything Im not sure of on Xp. I have both Hard drives backed up in case I do load any bogus crap but.....I havent anything bad to say about paltalk on my system and I havent noticed any abnormalities. It seems to be running fine to me and isnt malicious software. But with everything new...always make a backup before you load. If anyone is interested...I normally use Ghost but if you would like to take a backup image of your drive(s) here is a free utility that I found. http://www.runtime.org/dixml.htm and here is some instructions on how to use it and backup... http://lifehacker.com/software/feature/hot-image-your-pcs-hard-drive-with-driveimage-xml-326086.php again...I have used it and tested, works fine for me. Hope that helps someone.

I recently made a breakthrough using this method that has been out forever.

This floor trader method gives me a way to trade trend days.

http://www.trading-naked.com/FloorTraderMethod.htm

You also have to consider the context of the market. For instance if there was a expansion bar yesterday then normally you would expect today to be a hack day. If you had a couple of hack days then you would expect a trend day to come along soon. Real trend days that close on their highs are always caused by news of some type. Real trend days alway have adv/dec 80% plus up volume.

Try that method on the link out. There is other good stuff there too.

John

This is reply to a post Jim Kane made...but only on his forum. Prove it to yourself...for a week or two.. ..paper trade it and see what happens. I know what does...read below.

tks..Jim...but why not let a newbie run 1 contract and see what happens...he either gets stopped out at 1 or 2 pts...so $100 loss or he makes 25-30 pts...that is $1,250 or $1,500.00. Only 2 outcomes.

Simple. When you enter a trade...its 50% you going to win...meaning profit..that could be 1 pt or 30 pts. Now how do you skew this in your favour. Buffet, Templeton, Lynch, Greenblatt etc...did all this all the time and made 100 of millions of dollars if not billions...So daytrading how do you skew this to your favour? NOt buy buying any courses....stay away.

So when you enter a trade the probability of it reaching the 20-30 pts is like 90%...or 99% of making a profit...like 1 or 2 pts. Easy...know time and price...thats all and you will determine the point potential and profit.

Why do course sellers always go on a tangent about winning and math when they selling a course.

Before buying a course...and I aint selling any...ask for Proof...like their trading statements...dont buy any course it you do not get that. Jim you produced your trading prowess for anybody...you produced any statements to show how good a trader you are as you selling a course...I don't think so. and if you did...post it here or send me an email......I did not..but then again I'm not selling any courses...I going to be at a hedge fund proving my acumen and you still here debating math. I not interested in selling any courses...like a professor or book seller...I'm interested in making real money...

Finally...I would never sell a course because what I know I try to make millions for myself at a hedge fund...not selling a 2 bit course here and rationalize it with mathematics.

Are all the math professor billionaires...most are not if not all...just teaching and course sellers and book writers...ring a bell !!!

Jim instead of selling a course...use your PROWESS TO TRADE FOR A HEDGE FUND AND MAKE MILLIONS OR LOTS OF MONEY...why impress us poor old sods with your wisdom from your course...their is enuf of course sellers..trading zone, daytrading group...jpg....why would a person who was a great trade be on Paltalk.....hmm

That tells the tale...........You here pushing your sorry course...go trade with us hedge funds and make real money...but you won't.

JIm get a hedge fund job and I would challenge you any day...daytrading and position trading the ES, commmodity options, currency options.

When you got the hedge fund job let me know.....Selling your course here..what a joke.

If you want to make real money....keep it simple....


ok...this is my last post...so one more great piece of information that none of the other sods...ruvan...kane..etc...

EST 10:10 above bullish,,,,below bearish....go check the mkt Jan 31, 29, 28...2 of those days...mkt way above 10:10....TIME....and how many pts did it give...this alone is worth tens of thousands of dollars...see how I get my 6/10/20/30 or what ever pts a day.........

Now you want to listen to me or the rest of the course sellers..

If they selling a course...ask for audited statements...or run as fast as you can cause they know nothing.

wow, what a turn this thread has taken, hunterone lured people in and is now charging eh? how funny...as long as nobody has been hurt yet

pips just looking at a chart doesn't cut it, I have been "just looking at a chart" for years and years and years, it doesn't make you a profitable trader

now I will say this and you don't have to believe me...but the market is random, plain and simple and no 100% objective system just keeps on working and working and never fails

you would be amazed at the systems I've traded and/or discovered that are simply phenomenal only to flop in the long run...more proof the market is random

if the market was not random then we would have already figured it out mathematically (but that isn't going to happen)...too many players with too much money can "affect" the market...to many factors out of one person's control

bottom line, to make it in this business you must always be on the lookout for an edge and you must maximize that edge as long as possible, capital preservation is key

anyway, that's my .02

I know of very few downright honest teachers/mentors in the business but they are out there....I asked one recently why he cares about running a room at all since he makes a living trading (and yes, I have verified he makes a living trading, I have seen the statements, in addition to knowing exactly how much he makes from the room)....and his response was that he really enjoyed doing it and that he wanted to help people make money off "the market" since "the market" took so much of his money back when he started too...he really does get upset about all the crooks out there

if it possible to make money trading...that was the original question...yes, but "it ain't easy" :)

P.S.

one of the reasons I like forums is because all this info is out in the public now for everyone to see and hopefully people will find it before being ripped off

P.S.S.

for people that really are just searching for help or joining different services, do your DD, most places offer trials, make sure everything is very clear before handing over big bucks, be realistic with your expectations, ask yourself what your goal is if you decide to pay someone for something....and lastly, realize that even with all that it may not work for you...

subq,

You put out the bait and I'm biting. Who is the trading mentor that you confirmed makes a living from trading? Please post the link to his website. Thank you.

I consistently profit from futures/futures options, but it took me a long time to figure out the best way for me to do so.

While a set of trading rules is very important, I have found that it is just as, maybe even MORE important, to develop "trading callouses" from getting your butt handed to you repeatedly along the way.

Here's the thing: Any set of rules will only work until they don't. It is normal human psychology that there will come a time (again and again) where you deviate from the rules because A) you have had a string of losses, B) you have had a string of wins and now you have a loss and can't believe you're really supposed to "lose this one," C) you get greedy, D) you get scared for whatever reason, or E) any one of a thousand other things that will cause you to screw up.

I had ups and downs for many years until I thought I had it figured out and had a couple of years of really solid profits. I had my own private island picked out :) (not really, but I did have a condo in mind O/N an island). Then came the financial crisis of 2008 and I learned that while I had a generally good strategy, because times were good I had not developed an appropriate risk control system.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars later... (and that didn't take long at all!) I learned the hard way that my strategy was woefully inadequate when the unexpected happened. It took me a while to brush myself off, but eventually I did.

Since sometime in 2009 my cumulative returns are somewhere around 450%. Over the past 9 years I've found that proper risk control continues to be where I tend to fall short, so I've had some choppiness during this time. About two years ago I tightened things up some more to try to make for a smoother equity curve... this mean that, theoretically, my losing months should NOT be as large as in the past, but my winning months will also not be as large as they were in the past.

That's okay though -- even my cumulative success over the past 9-10 years, when averaged out by month, comes to < 2% a month. I suspect that 2% a month, long term, is about where I'll stay, but the ride should just be smoother along the way.

A return like that may or may not be enough for a particular person--it is for me--but keep in mind if you want to shoot for the stars there's a really good chance you're going to eventually crash land back on earth. It really does come down to being adequately capitalized and having a reasonable return be "enough" for you. By all means, trade even with a small account, because you need that experience to get to the point where you'll know what you're doing when you have the larger account. Just don't expect to turn a tiny account into a massive one along the way or you will probably be disappointed.

-PDG