My reply To Jim Kane

I have no intention of making a "personal" response and since someone has blocked the ability to use the reply button to your recent post this is the only way I know to reach you. I want to keep this as public as possible and deep down so do you. Our emails in the past have left me with empty promises, I still have emails were you tell me that taking down your site is going to be a slow process. Well, here it is 4 - 5 years later and your still selling stuff from that same site ( it's never been taken down) and I would assume you are still mentoring "private" clients. Your favorite way of teaching. So I guess it really has been a slow process You also never posted the public charts you said you would and I find it funny that you just want to gloss over that. And now your expecting something from me ? How strange ! I found that last post full of ego and arrogance. You should also go back and actually read the fib grid as it has no mention of decimal places or fractions and doesn't use highs or lows to calculate fibonacci lines. That's because they are not fibonacci lines. . That title was just my way of being a wise ass ( people are fibbing if they try to sell you stuff about fibs)as I have never heard of anyone using fibs to make money on a consistent basis. As far as Gann goes you can read what Larry Williams found out about Gann when he met his son and a guy who worked for him. Pure fluff but people still buy into it.

So it doesn't take a genius to realize ahead of time that I am not about to give up my time to validate you JIm. You are getting caught up on wanting to get credit for a number. Some .88 decimal thing or something. Lets have you validate yourself to us. Just scan in 4 years of verified trading statements. You will then have the honor of being one of the one percent ( not even sure if it would be that high )of people selling trading information that can actually back up their claims. Or just take some white out and get rid of your account stuff, scan them in and then all the world can see. You will have the validation you seem to be looking for.They can be quarterly or whatever you want. You obviously have tons of time if you are the one with the most posts and can write so much . So this should be a small task.

I have absolutely no interest in your material. So lets not drag this on and have you keep us waiting for years to get us those statements. You know that I am always suspicious of posts from people that need to keep their name out there. That's a given. It doesn't take a genius to know I would think that.

Let's not insult the forum anymore with this. Just post the statements and put and end to it. Anything less just implies that you are stalling and trying to redirect peoples attention. Oh yeah, one last thing .."wealthy" is a relative term so don't get so hung up on that.

Bruce

You are right it does sound like "pure nonsense" so I suggest you ask Jim why he was planning on closing his down years ago. That's a great question for him to answer. I'm not even sure he was specifically asked by anyone to do that years ago but he may have a link that points to such comments. I know he was asked "Why" the website was still operational but I can't remember comments that specifically asked him to shut it down. He may have volunteered to shut it down as some sort of proof that said " hey I'm really not a vendor and to prove it I'll shut down my website". Nobody currently has asked him to shut his website down either on this thread. There is a big difference between asking "why hasn't the website been shut down ?" And asking someone to shut down their website. I may be mistaken and I'm sure Jim can provide you with emails or posts that might say something different . Good luck.

Originally posted by MarcinO

Can anyone explain to me why should Jim close his website?
To boost his credibility???
Well that sounds like pure nonsense, that even Monthy Python wouldn't have invented.

I started a new topic. I hope some might be able to answer the questions I had there. This thread had reached the end of its useful life, I think we can all agree.

http://www.mypivots.com/board/topic/8609/1/statement-questions

Initially I was going to write about lack of consistency and logic in posts written by Bruce, but it has been already covered by Jim.
One thing that bothers me, and most likely makes the whole discussion useless is that you seem to be so biased against any vendor, Bruce, that it will prevent you from drawing any conlusions from arguments provided by Jim. And indeed, your way of 'discussion' is very close to eristics as laid out by Schopenhauer which is a method of 'winning' an argument by finding an aspect of it, which is the easiest to attacck, in honest or dishonest way, connected to the reason of discussion in a very loose way, and claim to that you are right.

But let's assume for a while, that you can keep an open mind, and analyze a couple of facts. I will show you how a typical trading education business works and compare it to what Jim does. After reading it think honestly, whether Jim main focus is indeed making money from education services....

1) I decided to buy Jim's book five years ago after finding his name in bibliography of one trading book. But the key reason that made me do that was a 'free reading' section on his website. It was painfully realistic, warning that you cannot expect to be a profitable trader unless you train hard for five years or more, the same as you cannot be a professional doctor or jet fighter without putting it that much time. Same truth is repeated in a couple articles by Jim.

What can you find on a website of a typical vendor? No introduction like that, at best. In most cases you will find advertisement saying - buy that book and you will become a millionaire in a few weeks.

2) Apart from selling great books really chip, Jim offers free access to his forum where he comments ES price action everyday, providing accurate areas in advance. Up to now he has posted over 32 000 times.

Typical vendor would ask a monthly fee for a service like that.

3) Mentoring. Jim focuses on one to one education which is exhausting and time consuming, therefore not very profitable.

A typical vendor would record a DVD or online workshop and sell it multiple times.

4) One last thing. I have been a follower of Jim for about five years now and can see what moves he catches on regular basis. Since I can also do a basic maths, I can assure you that trading small size, like a few contracts, makes money he can earn from selling books and running mentoring sessions relatively very small. And I took into account only ES, although I know Jim trades currencies, commodities and stocks as well.


So? What do you think now?

And I am still waiting for you to answer my question. How does closure of Jim's website, makes him reliable as a trader and inventor of techniques not published by anyone else?
This is what you are focusing on, during this discussion, and I cannot find a logic in this connection. Maybe that is because English is not my first language, but I am open to any argumentation from you, Bruce.

MarcinO - I gave you my answer about Jims website two posts above...it may be a timing/ posting issue and you missed that...i will comment more on the rest of your post here later...My kids get home from school soon but I won't forget........a quick basic thing you need to remember is that it was Jims idea to close the site...nobody was twisting his arm to do so...he is best to give you a full answer to that

I explained it to Bruce but apparently he missed it. I said I was getting tired of being associated with all the sleaze in this business, being called a vendor like it was a vile, disgusting word, being constantly slammed and attacked, and never being judged individually. This is the same approach racists take with skin color, and so on, as explained above. So, I thought the best thing was just get the heck out of it. I came to realize that I shouldn't let all these losers drive me away from something that was providing human contact for me with people who were interested in this kind of trading, and as I developed health issues that were restrictive, that became even more important.

I can't have a public forum here and do the same thing, no one here gives a rat's backside about my work. And all the members in my private area came via the website, not a single one from here. How many times do I have to explain this? That was my thinking then, I scaled the website down to no commentary and just doing routine maintenance. Then, as I said how many times, my situation and attitude changed, and I kept it as is since then, but didn't take it down. It seems Bruce brought this up and quoted my communications with him. Maybe that came about because he misread what I said about not ever taking it down and accused me of lying, and wanted accountability. That was clearly explained above, with my apologies for writing that poorly such that it was misunderstand. No harm, no foul. So, it's a dead issue.

I will reiterate my question, because you are answering something else, I guess.
How does Jim's decision to close or not his website (or change his mind) impacts his credibility as a trader? And I am not asking for any reasons for his alleged change of mind, you are referring me to, but what it has to do with his trading merits? For me the answer is obvious - literally nothing.

One more thing for you to think over, Bruce. Jim's section is followed everyday and is the most active thread in mypivots forum. It wouldn't be like that if he didn't have something really valuable to offer. Some people are there for many years just to see, what Jim has to say about the markets and study his methodology.

I know that one can be biased against trading educators, as there are for sure many dishonest people in this business, but in case of Jim you are making a huge mistake. To be honest, I cannot comprehend how can you do it, without knowing his work?

Hey, great post out there, Bruce. I like #4 and #5. Too bad for some people it's not actually physically possible. It's a real dilemma when one, for example, is basically unable to move. A person might happily give up all their trading skills just to be able to follow your advice here. Unfortunately, since you don't understand the situation, you are making comments that don't apply to me. But, the post wasn't about me, so that makes sense, it was just a general post. It was just coincidentally posted during all this, and had a lot of things that seemed directed at me.

In the same way as my rule #10. It does not refer to anyone. This is just a general advice.
After all, I am a professional consultant.

Originally posted by MarcinO

I will reiterate my question, because you are answering something else, I guess.
How does Jim's decision to close or not his website (or change his mind) impacts his credibility as a trader? And I am not asking for any reasons for his alleged change of mind, you are referring me to, but what it has to do with his trading merits? For me the answer is obvious - literally nothing.

It doesn't impact his credibility as a trader it specifically impacts his credibility as a man who does or does not keep to his word and promises .that means a lot in my book!.you need to go back and read my posts more efficiently - my point was always about him not following through on things he said he was going to do !!! The rest of this thread is meaningless..........go back to page one of this thread

One more thing for you to think over, Bruce. Jim's section is followed everyday and is the most active thread in mypivots forum. It wouldn't be like that if he didn't have something really valuable to offer. Some people are there for many years just to see, what Jim has to say about the markets and study his methodology.

I know that one can be biased against trading educators, as there are for sure many dishonest people in this business, but in case of Jim you are making a huge mistake. To be honest, I cannot comprehend how can you do it, without knowing his work?

MarcinO and everyone read the first post...I never mention his credibility as a trader...so you folks gotta get it together and stop being selective to try to prove some other point and some other agenda...stay focused and on topic....

This is my forum in here, no matter who starts the thread. I closed this topic. Posting after that is showing no respect. The only reason it isn't already locked is there were some forum changes and moderators can't lock it right now, so we are waiting on Guy. Please stop posting. If you want to continue this discussion go outside the Kane Trading forum area and start a new thread out there.