Traders Tax: H.R. 4191 (H.R. 1068) in Congress Now

I don't post in here often, but look through the forum here a lot. I just got an email an about this new traders tax bill in Congress now. From what I understand this could ruin day trading for everyone.

The email had a link to go to and sign a petition to send to U.S. Congress.

I just signed the petition and figured all the traders in here would want to as well as it is very important they don't pass this bill.

www VoteNo1068 com (this link no longer works so disabled)

edit: Link to H.R. 4191 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-4191

I was just thinking, since this forum is designed to help new traders and be positive, it may not be viewed too well to have me in here saying that I think trading may end, the world may end, etc. My basis for this is just what has happened so far, and the direction we are headed, and how much has yet to come out. Perhaps it all turns around, things go on status quo, and trading and life go on as expected. I will try to keep my more pessimistic thoughts to myself and to my own website.

My motivation here is one of desperation. If we all don't get very upset and start taking action, calling and writing our representatives, perhaps organizing peaceful marches, starting new organizations, and so on, I think we will all be at risk to lose our profession, and our country/world. I just can't sit idly by while people watch TV, drink beer, and say 'It could never happen...' By that logic, none of what has happened so far could have happened. But it did. So, hopefully day trading won't delete off my post above, and people will get active. It may be hard to face up to, but I feel we must face up in order to have a chance.

Nuts or not your end of trading thread got me into forex and there's no way it's ending anytime soon. If it does all I have to do is go to Bank of America .5 miles away or the jetport and trade dollars for euros or whatever. And trade that way. Countries need the FX market and traders both big and small trading it more than most know. The gov loves fx traders they know traders will do what they want them to do so they want tie up any of there $$$$ for instance imf let's traders know up front what's happening and what their intent is so the traders will push it that way. The BOJ, ECB, FED does this constantly and near daily. If your that scared open a forex account which acts as a bank account where cash is swapped for cash.

I respect this guy's opinion (see below) - he seems to think that the traders tax is dead, for now anyway. The link you posted was written in March - I think things have changed somewhat since then. I wonder if having a new Prime Minister in England will help, who knows.

http://www.greencompany.com/blog/index.php

Shiela,

Yes, you are right, I misread the date as May 16th, as it came from a new post I had just read and assuming it was a fresh new link, saw the date as I expected to see it. I have posted your link multiple times in this thread as the best link to keep current on this topic, and he does seem to think it's done. We'll see. As the hunger for taxes keeps rising I don't think it will ever be off the table. But, what do I know, I couldn't even get the date right and posted a two month old article...

VIENNA (Dow Jones)--Euro-zone finance ministers have made a key commitment to work together for the swift introduction of a Europe-wide tax on financial transactions, the Austrian finance minister said Tuesday, urging European heads of states and governments to get behind the initiative.

Finance Minister Josef Proell denounced the idea of national taxes on financial transactions and dubbed the decision at a meeting late Monday by the Euro Group a "milestone agreement."

"We have agreed in unison to accelerate and further the work for an introduction of a Europe-wide financial transaction tax. The financial markets must also make a contribution to overcoming the economic crisis. This is a milestone towards the completion of this large project," Finance Minister Josef Proell said in a statement.

"I now expect the heads of states and governments to do their part to secure the implementation," Proell said.

BERLIN (AP)— Germany's governing parties called Tuesday for the introduction of an international tax on financial markets, but left details open. Chancellor Angela Merkel said she would press the idea with other countries in the Group of 20.

The call came before the German parliament starts Wednesday to consider the euro750 billion ($1 trillion) rescue package to help eurozone nations avoid default. It is expected to vote on Friday.

As with the separate rescue package for Greece, which was unpopular among Germans, Berlin will be the biggest contributor among European countries.

Details of how a financial market tax might work were fuzzy. Birgit Homburger, Kauder's counterpart from the pro-business Free Democrats, spoke only of "financial market taxation."

Lawmakers from Chancellor Angela Merkel's center-right coalition urged the government to push for "a financial transaction or finance activity tax" in Europe and elsewhere, said Volker Kauder, the parliamentary leader of Merkel's conservative bloc.

"We want the stabilization of the euro," he said after a meeting of the coalition's top lawmakers. "But we also want the financial markets to be involved in this stabilization."

Killing the market is one way to stabilize it !

Keep in mind, this will only work if it is universally applied across all markets, meaning the new European transaction tax will need to be implemented in US markets.

Thanks for posting those, PT. I saw that today, but only as a rewrite from someone, without the source. I was going to look for it and post it, and I saw you did. Personally, and it isn't because I'm just plain negative, I think the U.S. will be all too happy to agree, to help Europe, to implement an equivalent. I just see no way no how they will not do a tax on 'evil traders' who contribute nothing. And as I've said before, I am 100% (not 99.99%) certain the key players will be exempted, leaving only us to pay it. So, the market which is almost all HFT and no depth of participation, will become even shallower.

And I know it isn't specifically mentioned, but if they are trying to control currencies, why would they exempt FX from this tax? Given the size of that market, I'd think they'd put that one on the top of the pile. I don't think there will be any escape. But, like all those in here who have mentioned the FX solution for us traders, I'll be right on that bandwagon. I'm just concerned the wheels will be off that wagon long before I make my first nickel. When the governments are fighting for their financial survival, no one will be spared except the 'in' crowd, and we ain't in that club...

Good posting everyone. One thing that I find difficult to digest is that, if this tax takes effect large amount of money will be moved away from the current liquid stock market which will cause a decline as well as kill liquidity. So if you buy a stock you are now an investor in the company and you get dividend like interest. That's it. Very few buyers are available to get them off your hands. So companies will have to drive profits if they want investments. So where does the layman invest for future savings? GIC'S........... Also I feel that gold will become a haven for investors.

I asked Robert Green (in an e-mail) to post a new update in his blog as to what he thinks the status of the transaction tax is - he seems to be on it - some of these articles on the net are misleading, as you said jim - copied and you don't know the source. We'll see if he does.

Originally posted by ak1

So if we get this tax how much will it be to round trip on the Emini S&P? I believe its 0.02% for futures. So if the Emini S&P is at say 1500 then 1500X50=75000X0.02%=$15X2=$30 (Round trip).Could someone please confirm my calculation.

In my opinion the way things are happening now and the dip that happened on 6th May, it looks like the market is preparing for the tax. Now if the market can retrace to a low level say 750 then the proposed tax is cut in half to $15 round trip. Also as the market will be low the policy makers will have to think twice about what rate to post. They might then consider 0.01% that will bring the tax to $ 7.50 round trip. Well time and tide will tell. All we can do is wait for what happens at the G20 summit next month.

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