3 June 2005 (Friday)

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Session Start: Fri Jun 03 06:01:54 2005
Session Ident: #t1

[09:24:27] <guy> gm
[09:27:11] <mashhad> looks like we will be opening within value in both ER and ES today
[09:29:55] <guy> yes
[09:33:28] <guy> Initial picture of ER2:
[09:33:41] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_1.png
[09:34:13] <guy> Initial chart for ES:
[09:34:21] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_2.png
[09:34:21] <guy> alpha showing buy here for ES
[09:38:52] <guy> what do you see on the ES mash?
[09:39:00] <guy> alpha keeps on giving buy readings
[09:39:08] <guy> buy I can't see a safe place to go long
[09:39:10] <guy> like VAL
[09:39:18] <guy> still too far above it
[09:40:51] <mashhad> well, i was working 01.25 but never got there
[09:42:01] <guy> good strategy though
[09:42:20] <guy> k-line is giving us a buy on ES
[09:44:38] <guy> ISM Non-Mfg Survey
[09:44:38] <guy> 10:00 ET
[09:45:48] <tuna> im looking for a trade at the globex extreems on er2
[09:46:58] <mashhad> u mean a short tuna?
[09:47:21] <tuna> prolly
[09:47:56] <tuna> they need to take out the globex players imo
[09:49:58] <guy> report in 11 minutes
[09:50:13] <guy> k-line on both ER2 and ES indicate we go higher
[09:50:25] <guy> alpha on ES wants higher
[09:52:00] <guy> While we're waiting for the numbers to come out
[09:52:07] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_3.png
[09:52:11] <guy> I'll show you what i'm working on with the DVATool
[09:52:25] <guy> that image shows an E bracket single from 2 days ago
[09:52:35] <guy> it's in white because unfilled
[09:52:46] <guy> on the YM
[09:52:52] <guy> Now look at this chart for the NQ
[09:52:59] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_4.png
[09:53:02] <guy> this also shows a single from yest. in the Q bracket
[09:53:14] <guy> but this one is in red because it has been filled today
[09:53:26] <guy> and tomorrow it will be taken off the chart
[09:54:09] <tuna> cool
[09:54:29] <mashhad> looking for a point of entry for ES
[09:55:01] <mashhad> but i doubt if we hit val, since we would have to go through the open for that ...so ?
[09:55:07] <guy> are you going to wait for report numbers first?
[09:55:25] <mashhad> yes, i have no choice since it's not clear
[09:55:30] <guy> good
[09:55:40] <guy> Also looking for a long entry in ER2 here
[09:55:50] <guy> perhaps the VAH for me
[09:56:47] <mashhad> yes
[09:57:47] <tuna> vwap right there too
[09:58:24] <guy> what is vwap for ER2?
[09:58:32] <tuna> 2day vwap at 624.5
[09:58:48] <tuna> at vah
[09:59:23] <guy> i have vah at around 625.7
[09:59:44] <guy> i have poc around the 2day vwap
[09:59:45] <tuna> yes
[09:59:55] <tuna> also correct
[10:00:52] <tuna> yippy
[10:01:18] <guy> bidding 625.7
[10:01:39] <guy> long now
[10:01:45] <guy>
[10:01:45] <guy> Buys ER2 @ 625.7
[10:01:45] <guy>
[10:02:29] <guy>
[10:02:29] <guy> exit stop set ER2 @ 623.7
[10:02:29] <guy>
[10:03:26] <guy>
[10:03:26] <guy> Exited all Long ER2 at 626.3 --> + 0.6
[10:03:26] <guy>
[10:04:01] <tuna> nice
[10:04:43] <guy> not really - i was hoping for follow through but didn't get it so a risky trade
[10:05:40] <guy>
[10:05:40] <guy> Buys ER2 @ 625.4
[10:05:40] <guy>
[10:06:40] <tuna> my theory is they gotta clear out the globex players some time today,,not MP,, we'll see
[10:06:49] <guy>
[10:06:49] <guy> Exited all Long ER2 at 625.9 --> + 0.5
[10:06:49] <guy>
[10:06:55] <guy> still no follow through here
[10:07:27] <guy> waiting for POC now...
[10:07:37] <guy> i agree tuna
[10:07:59] <guy> alpha is green and ready but no follow through on reactive rallies
[10:08:26] <mashhad> working 2.75
[10:08:27] <guy> can't post charts right now but will in a while
[10:08:43] <tuna> the other indices already got the globex longs
[10:08:59] <guy> but not ER2 tuna?
[10:09:02] <guy> Here is ER2 chart
[10:09:06] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_5.png
[10:09:09] <guy> with the alpha longs that i was trading off
[10:10:42] <guy> damn no fill!
[10:11:07] <mashhad> what are u trying to get guy?
[10:11:16] <guy> i was trying for POC
[10:11:22] <mashhad> on ES?
[10:11:25] <mashhad> or ER
[10:11:34] <guy> have a look at this chart:
[10:11:38] <guy> on ER2
[10:11:46] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_6.png
[10:11:49] <mashhad> i am trying it on ES
[10:11:53] <guy> it touched POC (blue line) but I didn't get fill
[10:12:08] <mikee> [09:03] <mikee> 1203 was open. price
[10:12:23] <guy> .
[10:12:27] <mikee> <mikee> below 1202 conf. down
[10:12:28] <guy> you got a fill mash?
[10:12:32] <mashhad> L 2.75
[10:12:36] <guy> good
[10:13:10] <guy> watch alpha now - while it is green the probability of that long working out is much improved
[10:13:51] <tuna> woodie has a pivot there too guy,,so a lot of times a few hundred 1 lot players all line up there fwiw
[10:14:03] <guy> thanks tuna
[10:15:03] <guy> no joy on ES yet...
[10:15:06] <tuna> woodie is the master of many many puppets
[10:15:49] <guy> :)
[10:16:05] <guy> i thought that he had other people moderating the room for him?
[10:17:14] <tuna> never been there,,but when they make a call in that room u can see it on time and sales
[10:18:56] <guy> k - i often wonder which rooms triggers those 1 lots
[10:19:54] <tuna> its not MP,,its my woodie strat.
[10:20:25] <tuna> fwiw
[10:20:44] <guy> ;)
[10:21:06] <guy> on ER2 DVAL and POC just below us now
[10:21:09] <guy> alpha is buy
[10:21:18] <guy> also top of OR
[10:23:24] <guy> bottom of OR for ES now
[10:23:28] <mashhad> well we got dbl tpos so
[10:24:14] <mashhad> out -1.50 x 2
[10:24:36] <mikee> we got conf. for downside
[10:24:52] <mikee> now 1202 is for ss
[10:25:48] <mikee> target 1199.25
[10:26:14] <guy> tough luck mash
[10:28:50] <guy> just announced in JP's room that Virgin Atlantic have a hijack code on one of their flights
[10:29:09] <mashhad> L 1.25
[10:30:19] <guy> Opening RFs:
[10:30:27] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_7.png
[10:30:32] <guy> all -2 except ER2 at 0
[10:32:05] <tuna> spoo single at 1201.9
[10:32:40] <tuna> filled
[10:34:12] <tuna> looks good mash
[10:34:48] <guy> IB info for ES:
[10:34:58] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_8.png
[10:35:01] <guy> good luck mash and tuna
[10:35:12] <guy> IB on ES is 5.75
[10:35:20] <guy> DIBH is 1212.00
[10:35:26] <guy> DIBL 1194.75
[10:37:11] <tuna> er vwap 625.6 now
[10:48:27] <mikee> 1202.75 was .382 from low - profit for longs
[10:52:06] <mikee> many confuences here, it's also ss area
[10:52:41] <mikee> (for shorts)
[10:53:23] <guy> nice trading tuna and mash :)
[10:53:34] <guy> off the VAL with alpha confirm
[10:53:39] <mashhad> +2 on 1
[10:53:56] <guy> Here's a chart of ES with that trade:
[10:54:01] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_9.png
[10:54:12] <guy> nice mash :)
[10:54:13] <mikee> nice
[10:54:30] <mashhad> looking to see where i should exit the 2nd one
[10:57:11] <tuna> globex high mebbe ;)
[10:58:33] <mashhad> u mean 6.25?
[11:00:40] <guy> one of the ways of picking targets is with the TimerA1
[11:00:41] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_10.png
[11:00:45] <guy> have a look at that ES chart
[11:00:57] <guy> TimerA1 put a red blob on the 2 high bars
[11:01:26] <guy> TimerA1 is a simple timer that looks at the value of $TICK and depending on your settings
[11:01:49] <guy> will tell you when $TICK moves to an extreme and keeps track of the relative extremes for the day
[11:02:25] <guy> So here is another chart of ES today
[11:02:29] <guy> which is a bit wider
[11:02:30] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_11.png
[11:02:53] <guy> and it shows that TimerA1 showed red sell blobs twice earlier in the day
[11:02:58] <guy> once at the high of the day
[11:03:22] <guy> we know that $tick extremes often signal reversal areas and places to take profits so this
[11:03:31] <guy> is a very long :) answer to mash's question
[11:03:54] <guy> that this timer may help when picking a second target
[11:04:09] <guy> LBR often talks about buying or selling into excess
[11:04:09] <mashhad> so according to timerA1 the top was 3.75? at least for this last cycle up?
[11:04:25] <guy> yes mash
[11:04:37] <guy> TimerA1 is saying that $tick hit an extreme there
[11:05:41] <guy> These are the parameters that I'm using for TimerA1
[11:05:47] <guy> in the ES right now
[11:05:47] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_12.png
[11:05:57] <guy> What those parameters mean are:
[11:06:16] <guy> Extreme=5 --> $tick must be in the top 5% of its range
[11:06:59] <guy> MaxTrigger=800 --> $tick must be at least over 800 before we get a signal (this stops a signal in the top 5% when the value is still low)
[11:07:08] <guy> MinTrigger -> reverse logic for above
[11:07:13] <guy> does that makes sense?
[11:07:47] <tuna> sure
[11:08:08] <guy> Okay, here is the same ES chart
[11:08:14] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_13.png
[11:08:21] <guy> but this time i've dropped the MinTrigger to -400 instead of -800
[11:08:38] <guy> So you can see a green buy blob the bar before the low of day right?
[11:09:03] <guy> now what this is saying is that the value of $tick is both below -400 AND also it's in the bottom 5% of its range
[11:09:44] <mashhad> do these factors change depending on the rythym of the market everyday for the timer?
[11:09:51] <guy> On the ER2 chart I have slightly different settings: I have Max=800, Min=-400 and Extreme=20%
[11:09:59] <guy> no mash
[11:10:07] <mashhad> ok
[11:10:17] <guy> they are fixed and you need to set them depending on how you feel about an extreme
[11:10:36] <guy> all they are doing is bring the value of $tick from what would otherwise be another chart
[11:10:47] <mashhad> i think the 1st red dot was to take a profit there which was right around DPOC which was a perfect spot
[11:10:49] <guy> and putting that value onto the ES/ER2 or any other chart for you
[11:11:05] <mashhad> from there on, for my 2nd contract, it's taking a chance
[11:11:47] <mashhad> we can rotate up from DPOC to DVAH or Possibly HOD or we could just rotate back down
[11:12:42] <mashhad> i am looking at the timer's signals from this morning
[11:12:58] <guy> do you have the timer loaded mash?
[11:12:59] <mashhad> we got a few signals from 9:30 to 10:00 time frame
[11:13:23] <mashhad> with over a 2 point wide range between the signals
[11:13:38] <mashhad> yes
[11:13:42] <guy> change the settings and make the extreme tighter than the default 20%
[11:14:01] <guy> it also sounds an audible alarm when it triggers which i find useful
[11:14:26] <mashhad> i have it at 5 and 20, is that correct?
[11:14:31] <mashhad> for ES
[11:14:47] <guy> so 5 is your VALUE and 20 is DEFAULT right?
[11:14:53] <mashhad> y
[11:15:10] <guy> and for max/min did you leave it at 500/-500 or set to 800/-800 ?
[11:15:49] <mashhad> it is already set at -800
[11:15:54] <mashhad> i did not change that
[11:15:54] <guy> oil is in rally mode
[11:15:57] <guy> okay
[11:16:16] <mashhad> i dont have the oil charts
[11:16:19] <guy> you need to change them and play around with them to see what works for the market that you're trading
[11:16:34] <guy> okay - oil is rallying right now
[11:16:38] <mashhad> ok thanks.. its a good indicator
[11:16:47] <mashhad> can u put up a chart for oil please
[11:17:27] <guy> i don't have oil on that computer
[11:17:47] <guy> so computer with oil chart on it can't save to web like other computer - sorry
[11:18:05] <mikee> es couln't get above 50%
[11:19:08] <mashhad> out b/e on 2nd
[11:21:14] <mashhad> just enough to get me out of my trade!
[11:21:47] <mikee> still short
[11:23:27] <mikee> average 1202.75
[11:23:42] <guy> oil easing off a bit...
[11:31:01] <guy> good trading mash on that second contract
[11:31:07] <guy> nice short mike
[11:31:27] <mashhad> thx
[11:33:11] <mikee> sry phone, tks
[11:34:13] <mikee> conf. down below 1200.5 with target 1199.25
[11:35:32] <guy> ES above IBL and ER2 below
[11:35:47] <guy> TimerA1 says buy on ER2
[11:36:21] <mikee> out more +2.5 average
[11:36:34] <guy> nice mike
[11:36:40] <tuna> y
[11:36:43] <guy> i'm not touching this because alpha is falling
[11:36:46] <mikee> tks
[11:37:18] <mikee> we have confirmation
[11:37:23] <mashhad> y
[11:37:29] <mikee> ss area 1202 again
[11:38:31] <mikee> a also have puts on dia (already +.25)
[11:38:47] <mikee> es target hit, - out
[11:40:06] <tuna> all charts locked
[11:40:41] <guy> mine are fine tuna
[11:40:53] <mashhad> good here
[11:41:00] <mikee> it might bounce as 99.25 reached
[11:41:01] <guy> click the unlock button
[11:41:09] <mikee> to 1200.5
[11:42:17] <guy> oil strong
[11:46:12] <mikee> fib. turn time here
[11:46:20] <mikee> long es
[11:48:37] <mikee> downside target 96.75
[11:48:46] <mikee> then 94.25
[11:48:59] <mashhad> did u take a long or short mikee?
[11:49:48] <mikee> long
[11:50:06] <mikee> was hoping for bounce
[11:50:14] <mikee> out -.5
[11:53:50] <mikee> long es 96.5
[11:55:08] <mikee> 95.75 stop
[11:55:41] <mikee> catching knife
[11:55:45] <mikee> :)
[11:57:34] <guy> dangerous stuff
[11:57:39] <mikee> target 97.5
[11:57:59] <tuna> woodie bounce on er
[11:58:30] <guy> here is the bigger picture
[11:58:37] <guy> ER2 30min chart for this week
[11:58:37] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_14.png
[12:00:32] <guy> This next chart
[12:00:38] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_15.png
[12:00:47] <guy> of the ER2 shows a new feature in the DVATool
[12:00:54] <guy> the thick dotted yellow line
[12:01:06] <guy> shows the unconfirmed single in the H bracket at 623.4
[12:01:22] <guy> this line popped up as soon as we moved into this bracket
[12:01:42] <guy> now that line will change to confirmed and white in the next bracket if we don't fill in that price
[12:01:44] <guy> during this bracket
[12:02:01] <guy> so it's a head's up that we have a potential single there
[12:04:57] <guy> Now on the YM chart
[12:05:07] <guy> we have an unconfirmed single as you would expect
[12:05:09] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_16.png
[12:05:17] <guy> but also a single from Q bracket which filled in
[12:05:23] <guy> so Q bracket single is now red
[12:05:35] <guy> and will dissappear on next trading session
[12:09:33] <guy> Okay here is a good chart of the NQ today
[12:09:38] <guy> the chart is a 1 min chart
[12:09:41] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_17.png
[12:09:58] <guy> and loaded lines are IBTool and DVATool
[12:10:19] <guy> The thin dotted lines are the IBH, IBL and DIBL
[12:10:24] <guy> in grey and blue
[12:10:34] <guy> the thick dotted lines are the singles lines
[12:10:42] <guy> red=filled in singles today
[12:10:58] <guy> white=confirmed single (see label for bracket and creation date)
[12:11:08] <guy> yellow=unconfirmed single
[12:11:30] <guy> unconfirmed singles can only be from last bracket and there can only be 1 unconfirmed single at a time
[12:13:11] <guy> .
[12:13:26] <guy> DIBL on ER2 held for up to 5 ticks
[12:13:52] <guy> for 17 minutes before it failed
[12:14:38] <guy> .
[12:14:42] <guy> This is the ES chart:
[12:14:47] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_18.png
[12:15:02] <guy> aparently there was a single at 1195 that has just been filled in
[12:15:14] <mikee> long last time es
[12:15:22] <guy> which is just above DIBL
[12:15:29] <guy> good luck mike
[12:15:38] <mikee> as target almost hit
[12:15:40] <guy> alpha has turned negative on ES here
[12:15:40] <mikee> tks
[12:17:51] <mikee> i bought off tl 60min, and ab=cd
[12:18:01] <mashhad> Guy, is there a way to increase the default numbers on the timer?
[12:18:20] <mashhad> maybe to 1200/-1200 or 1600/-1600 ?
[12:18:48] <mikee> +1.25 1/3
[12:19:05] <mikee> target 97.5-97.75
[12:19:09] <guy> mash - if you edit the default numbers
[12:19:16] <guy> do they become permanent?
[12:19:27] <guy> i.e. change the defaults and click okay
[12:19:41] <mashhad> ok let me try
[12:19:45] <guy> then try and load the indicator on a new chart and see if they are the new defaults
[12:19:49] <guy> i've never tried this
[12:21:26] <mashhad> just tried it, it defaults back to 800/-800 and that seems to be giving too many signals on a trend day like this
[12:21:38] <guy> yes - i just tried it as well
[12:21:43] <guy> you beat me by 2 seconds
[12:21:48] <mashhad> lol
[12:22:07] <guy> if you change the value and save your pages or charts then it will save the value that you set
[12:22:41] <guy> is that a possibility?
[12:23:21] <mashhad> not sure how to do that guy
[12:23:58] <mashhad> i think the default has to change in the study
[12:33:11] <mikee> out, gottogo, nice w/e to all
[12:33:58] <fspeculator> is it supposed to be symmetrical
[12:33:58] <fspeculator> ?
[12:34:06] <fspeculator> i don't think so (from experience)
[12:43:02] <guy> okay the single i showed earlier
[12:43:12] <guy> on the ER2 chart that was unconfirmed and in yellow
[12:43:28] <guy> this next chart shows that it is now white
[12:43:36] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_19.png
[12:43:45] <guy> the color changed automatically when we rolled into this bracket
[13:00:41] <guy> .
[13:00:49] <guy> I also want to show you this alert
[13:00:55] <guy> that pops into the alert window
[13:00:55] <signal> [img] http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoot/T1/charts/20050603_20.png
[13:01:03] <guy> when a new single is created
[13:01:27] <guy> and there is an optional audio alarm as well
[13:03:31] <cweeds> guy have to have 7.9 es sig for new stuuf to work
[13:03:43] <guy> yes cweeds
[13:03:55] <guy> have you already tried 7.9 ?
[13:04:06] <cweeds> have u had any prob with 7.9
[13:04:20] <cweeds> no not yet
[13:04:24] <guy> small problems but same number of probs as 7.8
[13:04:40] <guy> for me it runs better than 7.8
[13:04:59] <guy> and when talking to the esignal folk it appears that most people have moved onto 7.9
[13:05:08] <cweeds> if i get 7.9 , do i need new tool pac
[13:05:22] <guy> for me it's an admin nightmare to run 2 versions of indicators
[13:05:37] <tuna> did they fix the cpu usage issue?
[13:05:44] <tuna> in 7.9
[13:05:46] <guy> esignal 7.9 has a new encryption method that's not compatible with previous versions which is my problem
[13:06:22] <guy> i assume not tuna (i didn't know that there was one) because they haven't release a new version yet
[13:06:36] <guy> cweeds: all of toolpack works with both versions
[13:06:41] <tuna> they said 7.9 was the fix
[13:06:48] <guy> the toolpack that you have cweeds
[13:06:55] <guy> except the AltDayColor
[13:07:07] <tuna> i wondering if it was true
[13:07:13] <guy> esig 7.9 introduced a bug that breaks AltDayColor
[13:07:28] <guy> but if you upgrade to 7.9 then use the new ToolPack and everything is okay
[13:07:53] <guy> i never had a CPU problem with esig so i haven't noticed tuna
[13:08:04] <cweeds> new tool pac is listed on sight ?
[13:08:22] <tuna> k
[13:08:44] <guy> yes cweeds
[13:08:54] <guy> cweeds: do you have a spare or backup computer?
[13:09:09] <guy> what i do is install next ver of esig on backup computer
[13:09:13] <guy> and test it out first
[13:09:15] <cweeds> just one trade comp
[13:09:19] <guy> okay
[13:09:44] <guy> i would try it out over the weekend then
[13:09:52] <guy> you can also replay the data
[13:09:58] <guy> in the playback mode
[13:10:06] <guy> and test it like that
[13:10:17] <guy> if it doesn't work then go back to previous version
[13:10:40] <cweeds> if i change name on current e sig then download new ver , i be able to reload old ver ?
[13:11:57] <guy> no
[13:12:06] <guy> do you still have the install file for 7.8?
[13:12:35] <cweeds> i have 7.7 now
[13:12:39] <guy> okay
[13:12:55] <guy> do you have the install file for 7.7 still?
[13:13:56] <guy> .
[13:14:09] <guy> what i would do is backup your esignal directory
[13:14:14] <cweeds> trying to find it now
[13:14:19] <guy> then download the 7.9 install file
[13:14:29] <guy> install it over the weekend and test it out
[13:14:47] <guy> if there are problems then revert back to 7.7
[13:14:49] <cweeds> have file named windsig.exe ?
[13:14:57] <cweeds> correct file ?
[13:15:02] <guy> i know that sometimes esignal keep older install files on their server
[13:15:15] <guy> let me check
[13:16:11] <guy> no - i think the install file for that version was called esignal77.exe
[13:16:15] <guy> hang on...
[13:18:34] <guy> i think that this is the link: http://www.esignal.com/executables/esignal77.exe
[13:18:40] <guy> try that link
[13:18:55] <guy> and see if you can download the original install file for 7.7 from there
[13:19:13] <guy> then go to the web and download and save 7.9
[13:19:52] <guy> then keep both install files so that you can revert back to a previous version (7.9 will one day become a previous version)
[13:25:25] <guy> cweeds - feel free to send me emails over the weekend and we can chat with VOIP or in here and get you sorted out with 7.9 of esignal
[13:30:29] <cweeds> thx guy
[13:30:52] <cweeds> will update saturday
[13:41:51] <mashhad> DPOC took DVAL's place in ES
[13:42:43] <fspeculator> will you short singles?
timed out)
[14:39:48] <guy_afk> fspec: if alpha looks right

[19:23:14] * Disconnected
Session Close: Fri Jun 03 19:23:17 2005