Wanted:Trading Mentor

Aspiring trader seeks to hire a mentor with MP expertise.

Requirements: At least 2 years experience with demonstrated success day trading the ES with MP methodologies and systems. Excellent verbal and presentation skills. Willingness to travel for person to person tutoring.

Please send email detailing your experience and fee requirements.

Sorry, I got my con men confused! It was Day Walker and here is the link
http://www.mypivots.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1403&whichpage=3

Not this one: Why vendors don't supply trading statements?

No, not that one. This one:
http://www.mypivots.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1403&whichpage=1

Carefully read the conversation starting on page 3 between the two of you when the topic is introduced by Day Walker up to the end of the thread. It's clear what your position was on the matter and that was before you surmised he was a con.

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Originally posted by oliverpharris

I think the issue of legal liability for showing statements is a real one, but also one that can easily be dealt with by the pen of a good lawyer. For instance, I would be willing to sign an agreement that states I have seen the statements and understand that my trading results may differ substantially, the mentor is not making any representations that he can actually teach me to trade profitably, etc. AND I would indemnify the mentor and hold him harmless against any trading losses I incurred. As far as fraud or fakery goes, I would insist the broker issue a simple opinon letter that the statements to the best of his knowledge are authentic and true. That gets rid of the legal/fraud overhang unless the broker is involved in the scam to fleece me. (I said I would pay handsomely for a mentor, but not enough for someone to engage in an elaborate scheme.)

As far as learning from students of other gurus, mentors, teachers, what have you, I am interested solely in MP based trading. I think your suggestion of consulting my tax professional is a good one.

day trading, I recall reading your rebuttal to ahk who brought up the same issue as Mr. Kane and at that time you emphatically disagreed with him about the legal implications of providing statements. You seem to have moderated your position since then. I'm curious why the change of heart.

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I'm going to throw another two cents in here. Believe me, I'm not trying to argue, just provide good food for thought. When I was much younger, in another life, I used to race dirt bikes. We all used to have to sign a liability release to be allowed to race. It was written by attornies for the racing circuit company. They were pages long. Then someone got hurt, and the courts said a person can't sign away their rights like that, the release was useless, and was rendered not admissible. The attornies for the racing company promised them they would be 100% covered, but they got nothing at all from that promise. I was really curious about this, and found many times that waivers of that kind are not even considered. I'm sure it varies state to state, court to court, and situation to situation. It's just not a sure thing by any stretch.

As far as fraud, you would be forced, and my opinion is absolutely forced, to rely on the bigger brokers for this (see next paragraph on smaller brokers). And I am willing to bet their compliance department would never allow any letters/statements to be issued. They have nothing to gain, and some potential risk, even if it seems unlikely. (I would be grateful if you would call a few of the big names and ask if they would be willing/able to do this. Tell them a potential mentor said he was willing, and you want to know if it could be arranged. Then let us know in here what they say. This would guide us in trying to put a solution together for everyone in here.)

If someone wanted to show statements and allow people to verify with the broker that they were real, they would simply start an IB, which is so easy it is ridiculous, under a different company name, and that would be their broker. These scam places do a lot of business for a lot of coin. It would be very easy to do this. Or they could get with someone who is small but established and cut a deal with them. When I read the articles on the regulatory websites I can't even comprehend the level of fraud that is out there, and what some of these people do.

Like I said, that hedge fund thing I read about, the fraud was so deep it was crazy. Remember when the biggest fraud in history at the time (I'm not mentioning any names, even though it is public knowledge, but we all know who this is) happened a few years back, and the huge accounting firm was in it to their eyeballs, and subsequently went under? I know I'm getting very cynical, but I don't trust anyone anymore, when firms this big can't be trusted. Yes, all of what you say may cut down on getting taken, but it won't cut out the serious scammers.

I only trust something from someone I personally know and trust who has firsthand knowledge.

Mr. Kane,

In this country, one never knows what a judge or jury will do. No law ever seems to be really cut in stone so maybe a judge would be sympathetic to someone who traded after giving a full release to the teacher, but I think we are making a mountain out of anthill, which is to say, I'm not that paranoid and not that stupid. Again, this is all about risk reward and we're not talking about enough money here for someone to risk getting a prison sentence or big fine.

I'm afraid we're deviating too far from the topic at hand although I appreciate the words of caution from the participants. I still think the challenge is to find someone to step up to the plate and show interest. I hear great things about MP, but I question whether anyone is successfully using it to trade the ES and make a living by doing so. I understand alleyb has success with MP, but not in daytrading the ES market.

Well, I'll call it quits on this topic, since in looking back, it was started as a request for a mentor, and while you are waiting for a reply I guess we were all filling in the space with what we thought were helpful comments in case some scammers showed up. I don't think your comment "...this is all about risk reward and we're not talking about enough money here for someone to risk getting a prison sentence or big fine" is right, though, because that would preclude all the people that are getting caught and sentenced on a daily basis for the very things I am mentioning. Go to the regulatory websites and read the daily cases and it is amazing the things people risk for the amount of money you are going to pay. I just don't want to see anyone get scammed. You don't need to reply to this, and I'll sign off, and I do hope that you find someone good for the task.

Can you provide that link to the reg authorities on all the scoundrels who get caught?

I'm not sure if they want links posted, so I will tell you where I look. All the home pages can be found easily using Google or the like.

CFTC - Look in the middle right for Law & Regulation, then look about half way down for Enforcement orders and complaints. I just checked it right now and there are some right there exactly like what I am saying.

NFA - Across the top, news center, then news releases, or regulatory actions.

SEC - Look on the left under litigation, and also investor info.

In my humble opinion, going through this is very, very sobering. I'm glad you are asking for the sources. Even though I promised to sign off, I would welcome comments from anyone on what they see.

Posting links to those sites are fine Jim - those are valuable and useful resources for all traders. In fact, I often think that before you're allowed to open an account with a broker you should have to answer a questionaire based on material from those sites. i.e. prove that you're aware of the type of people that are out there.

I agree with you on that, Guy. As far as linking, I have seen a few websites that prohibited links, or had very strict rules, and since I didn't know the linking policy for the above, I thought I'd just describe it.

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Originally posted by eeisen

Frank Butera is hardly one of the "premier traders in the world".

It depends on what "handsome amount of money" means, that's entirely subjective depending on who you're talking to. If you're talking at least 5k/day, then I'd consider doing it, depending on what it is you want and where you're at already. Any less than that, and averaged out over 30 days I'd be losing money because I wouldn't be trading live cash while trying to explain things to you either in person or over the phone.

If you're interested, shoot me an email at [email protected]. I don't mind making live calls with you on the S&P futures intraday with you over the phone or whatever until you're convinced I'm the real deal, no money up front. I have nothing to hide.

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Does that 5 grand include room and board?