Nature's Force Trading

Someone that I met through a chat room has suggested that I try out Steve Rifkin at naturesforcetrading.com. At first I thought that he was joking because Steve Rifkin is also the name of a B-movie actor but then I found out that there is this trader called Steve Rifkin and he has this web site. I was also told that the cost of his couse is very high, like somewhere near $10,000. I would like to hear from some other people who have been to his course before I start talking to him. Anybody used him?

I have never used or heard of this service, but I did look through the web-site, and found the links along the top for more information all went to the same page which contained little additional information.

Based on this limited information, it appears the service trades what they call the 4 AWE price patterns, which are simple flag formations. They put an elliott wave wrapper around these AWE patterns and use automated elliot wave pattern recognition charting software to assist in real-time.

There is a lot of value in learning how to trade a flag pattern correctly, but $10,000 seems like a steep price tag even with the automated software feature.

I was in his room for about a week 3 or 4 years ago. A fellow called Tom Hougaard who now runs a site called Trader Tom (www.tradertom.com) recommended him to me. I met Tom and his friend Alex (not his real name) at a presentation that Tom was doing for City Index in London and listened to the presentations that they were giving and followed what they were doing.

It looks like Steve Rifkin has changed his methodology a little bit. When I was in the room it was all about Fibonacci retracements and ABC patterns and very little else. Tom was also a big fan of this.

While I was in the room it appeared that Alex (who was also in the PalTalk room with myself Tom and about 5 others) was often ignoring what Steve was saying and making good money.

Nobody in the room except Steve speaks which is reasonable because it allows just one mentor to keep control and talk. This becomes a problem in rooms where there is more than one person talking so this was good. Very few of the traders typed in the room either. Most of the conversation was via PM with Steve.

One of the problems was that you could not work out which way Steve was about to trade and you only discovered that he was in a trade after the market had moved several ticks in the trade's direction and so it was nearly impossible to follow what he was doing and trade with him.

Was/is he a con? I honestly cannot say one way or the other. As I mentioned this was a few years ago so I don't recall the exact details. At that time I think that he was charging $3,500 but I can't remember what that was for though.

I do remember him doing a hard sell on me and I think that's what chased me away almost immediately.

He let me sit in on the room for 1 week and I would suggest that you do the same as this will give you a feel for how he trades and if it's good for you.

Steve Rifkin is another con.
http://fraud-steve-rifkin.50webs.com/Swindler-Steve.htm
This webpage is the reason why the links along the top for more information all go to the same page.
There was a thread on elitetrader.com about Rifkin, which was shut down quickly.

This webpage was brought to my attention because i did the "mentoring".
Rifkin charges $6000 for 6 months, the "mentoring" program.
After 6 months you can stay for $3000/year.
The wavetracker software for esignal is very good. Rifkin didn't do the programming.

Rifkin uses fib retracements, ab=cd, basic volume patterns on 1 min chart, support/resistance and basic trendlines.
There is value in this approach, but don't pay Rifkin $6000 to learn it.
His approach is based on Bryce Gilmore's Trading to win book.

If you are interested in this kind of trading check out the work of Jim Kane and Bryce Gilmore's Trading to win book.

BBJ - thanks for taking time to post this information here.

I agree with the opening statement made on the web-site...

"Daytrading fraud is fast becoming a real pest on the internet with dishonest so-called profitable 'mentors' offering worthless daytrading courses or software programs. Most of such 'mentors' aren't trading real money, but only fictitious. They only sell expensive courses for a living instead of to trade."

We have an opportunity here on this forum to expose this recent wave of fraudulent trader education vendors springing up lately.

If your considering paying thousands of dollars to someone claiming they can turn you into a profitable trader, please ask about the vendor here and do some genuine research about the vendor before giving them your hard earned money. Share what you learn with us here.

Most important, be extremely skeptical of the validity of any claim made by a vendor. Odd's are very high the claims made are based more in creative marketing and not entirely factual, and in many cases are simply made up out of thin air. Play it safe and assume this is the case and look for verifiable facts upon which to base your decision to give someone your money.

The fact is, learning to trade profitably is a lot more difficult than most of us think starting out. As novice traders we tend to over-estimate our actual abilities. Consistent profitability is a result of a lot (years) of experience, much of which involves learning what does not work and why. Learning to trade (think) correctly takes a lot of time. Giving someone $5,000 or $10,000 of your money is not going to shorten the time required. In trading, there is no substitute for experience, and the best teacher is the market itself.

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Originally posted by BBJ

There was a thread on elitetrader.com about Rifkin, which was shut down quickly.

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Why would elitetrader shut down a discussion thread about Rifkin?

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This webpage was brought to my attention because i did the "mentoring".

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I don't fully understand that? "You" did the mentoring?

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...uses fib retracements, ab=cd...

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AB=CD that's what I meant when I said ABC

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...approach is based on Bryce Gilmore's Trading to win book.

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I saw a reference to Bryce Gilmore on Trader Tom's site. I think that he mentioned that you need to be able to tolerate profanity being spoken in his room.

The audio clip on that web site is a real ear opener.

Why would elitetrader shut down a discussion thread about Rifkin?

The thread was created by the unhappy ex-students. They were making publicity for their webpage ...too much negative publicity for Rifkin his business.

I don't fully understand that? "You" did the mentoring?

Btw sorry if my English sounds a bit strange, it's not my mother tongue.
I received an email from Rifkin's unhappy ex-students informing me about the webpage they created. Apparently they knew i did the mentoring with him.
I wanted to make it clear that i'm not one of the persons behind the webpage but i do agree with the content.

Okay I understand your comment that you "did the mentoring with him" -> you were another student of his right? When you said did the mentoring "with" him I thought that you also taught other students as his partner.

I suppose that elitetrader.com have to tread a fine line between what they think is excessive promotion of a web site and fair usage although in this case I don't really see the problem but then I didn't see the thread on elitetrader.com so impossible to give an objective opinion.