Kingfish Traders

KINGFISH TRADERS: http://www.kingfishtraders.com/

Have you heard of them?

Have you tried them?

What is your opinion?

I like the idea of using the forum as a journaling tool for tracking trade success. This will be a great place to keep my arbitrage trading results. Working to master the technique now.

Take the emotions out of the game and just follow the plan for consistent income. Consistent, not "raving" returns so the ultimate results are raving!

Sorry if this doesnt come out right...dont quite have the hang of the cut and paste thing i guess...

Thanks for your reply majamaem.

quote:...their is also a proprietary "prop" stop you will hear the room members talk about that keeps you in the trade...and allows the +10 point profits.


Is this like the chandelier or safe stop method? - I dont know what either of these are so wouldnt know. The prop stop KF uses is propreitary, hence the prop part of prop stop, so i wouldnt think so.

quote:Ive been in and out for over a year and use just a couple of his many trades.


What does he trade? ES/NQ? What do you trade? - He trades and teaches with the eMini but some in the room trade the q and bonds. I trade the eMini, bonds and the forex

quote:It might be considered by some to be a bit pricy at 6000 but you get what you pay for I guess. The members tout it to be the most powerful trading program on the planet and he has a pretty vast membership.


How many? - The room averages 120 to 150 on any given day but people come and go as they please.

quote:Its pretty unusual too because he teaches you to be independent. Once you learn the program...


How long does it take the average person to learn? How long did it take you to learn? - Depending on your skill base it can be absorbed quickly or could take a longer time. It is kinda based on the individual i guess. Usually, you will get a full understanding of one or two trades the first week and then all the other information follows. I have been trading since the late 80's so i picked up the concept pretty quick.

quote:...into the "day watcher" mode instead of day trader mode.


I don't understand what you mean by "day watcher" versus "day trader" ? - Some are at a stage in their trading career where they cant pull the trigger. So, for whatever reason, they sit and wait and "watch" the market do this and that. They are deathly afraid to pull the trigger and spaz out when they do. Kf encourages you to trade, and puts the mechanisms in place to destress your actions. He calls it "day watching" when your sitting there flat.

Thanks for all your comments - I'm getting more and more interested. I'm also having a conversation at the moment with chartex and she is showing me volume at price which I'm also finding interesting. - Well good luck with that. The one thing I like about KF is NO studies or indicators...pure price action. No volume, no stochastics, no nuttin. And the floor takes it even further ya know...floor traders say Charts are for sailors. Now that might be pushing it for me, but Id love to have someone teach me to trade without charts...Id cancel my Qcharts account. ha

This is an interesting discussion and I thank everyone for their contributions. I think that there is an aspect to KingFish and all the other systems out there that a lot of people miss when they discuss and comment on these system. IMO the system has to fit the trading style and personality of the trader. Each of us are unique and one system that works fantastically well for person A will not work at all for person B.

If, for example, system A produces great profits with a 5 point stop on each trade but ends up stopping out 80% of the trades if you use a 2 point stop then someone who doesn't have the risk tolerance for using a 5 point stop will be unsuccessful with this system.

So my point is that the KF system will probably work very well for a very small percentage of people, averagely for a larger percent and then not at all for the balance of people that use it. As such, it is impossible to recommend or condemn a system like this until a person has tried it.

From what I've read in this thread it does not appear to be a system that you can master in a short period of time. It looks like a considerable amount of effort is required to learn how to read the markets which is not an unreasonable requirement. However, if you agree with the assumption that only a small percentage of traders will have the correct personality for this system then a lot of traders may end up shelling out $6,000 only to find at the end of 6 months (say) of intensive training and studying, that the system does not fit their personality and that they are not among the small percentage of people that can use it.

At that point you then end up with a bunch of dissatisfied ex-customers who will criticize a system and say "this system doesn't work - it's a rip-off" when in fact there is just a mismatch of trading style/personality with trading system. The problem here is that ex-customer has lost $6,000 and feels hard done. On the other hand the vendor has spend 6 months coaching this person and is not to know beforehand that the trader's style would not suit his system. So you end up in a catch-22 situation where the vendor needs to be rewarded for his time and efforts spent with the trader and the trader should only pay if they can use the system effectively.

So what kind of solution can we suggest here?

Well here is one (and I'm sure there are other solutions):
The vendor of a system (say KingFish in this case) sets out the requirements for a trader taking on the course. Those requirements would be, for example:

• The trader must be in front of their trading screen and able to trade 90% of RTH time.


• Must have the appropriate software and equipment.


• Must have $XX,XXX of trading capital.


• etc...

The trader then agrees (contracts) to follow the course and meet all the requirements. The trader also makes his payment in escrow.

If at the end of the stipulated time period the trader has not been able to achive the success promissed by the vendor and all the requirements have been met then the trader receives his money back.

On the other hand, if the trader has not met the requirements that he contracted to follow to reach success then the vendor receives the payments.

All of the communication between the vendor and trader should be done through a logged live chat session and email and the online chat sessions should be recorded for arbitration should that be neccessary. (Not sure who would do the arbitration though...)

WOW!! Have you seen this on the Rip-Off Report web site:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=144907

It's an article about KingFish Trading. Not sure how accurate it is but this guy really doesn't like KingFish Trading.

Hi,

I see there was a discussion many months back (in June 05) about the Kingfish trading chat room/e minin service. I would like to know if there have been any posts on this since June and/or has anyone since then tried this service?

Thanks,

Bill

I haven't tried it but after reading throught the comments from the link that George Soros posted I found one that I thought came from a level headed guy that I've chatted to on several occassions. I'm quoting it here:

quote:

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As in any case, whereever smoke emerges there is some sort of fire beneath it.....

I've watched the Kingfish trial procedure for several weeks, using various nicknames. I was neither dissapointed nor amazed....a person with some trading experience will understand the "system" in a few hours. It's a pure contrarian system which tries to pick bottoms and tops fading the extremes of the market.

What makes the system worth considering is the trade management rules which really make sense.The system can produce some really good signals,because often the market turns at that extremes.

But if there is a trendy day and you don't take the first signal you are going to experience a lot of bad trades,trying to fight the trend.So, the system works better if the market swings between 2 extreme points.

The people in the room have a kind of religious devotion to Kf,or Steve Boyd as his real name is.They are friendly and helpful to the newcomers but they don't reveal any "secrets".I' ve spoken to a lot of them.The one thing that scares the newcomer is that many of them are heavy drinkers and some of them have already blowed out several accounts trying to trade profitably.

His father in law is a retired electrician who lives on his wife salary and Kf's best friend is a very strange person who is always drunk and trades contrary to the system !!!! if somebody wants to become a member he has to deal with KF'S wife,a young lady who doesn't know anything about trading but tries to promote her elderly husband's business.

Anyway,this is an interesting group of people,who seem to have a strong relation to each other...I have tried to keep records on the trades KF calls,in order to evaluate its performance,but this is not easy because the system gives numerous signals and there are traders that have opposite positions all the time.Kingfish himself never reveals his trades,and I suspect that he doesn't trade at all...

Anyway,the system is interesting and it's worth trying it,provided that you follow strictly the management rules.You don't have to pay the illogical fee of 6000 dollars.As a matter of fact,the rules are well known over the internet for free...There are even some demonstration charts showing the rules of the system.You can find them anywhere.....

I hope that my comments will be useful to any potential customer of KF.

George - ATHENS, Europe
Greece

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quote:

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Originally posted by bkanter

Hi,

I see there was a discussion many months back (in June 05) about the Kingfish trading chat room/e minin service. I would like to know if there have been any posts on this since June and/or has anyone since then tried this service?

Thanks,

Bill

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Bill: My suggestion would be to follow the Greek guy's method for assessing the room by trying the free trial several times under different aliases if a 1 week trial isn't long enough to make a fair assessment. Once you have had enough time to assess how good it is then you will be able to evaluate if it is worth it or not. If it's worth the money then you can pay up and join. If not then you can make KingFish an offer and perhaps he'll accept a lower price. Everything is negotiable.

It's hard to tell what is true or not but it sounds like a drinking club more than a trading club... but you won't know if any of the allegations are true unless you've seen it or heard it from a reliable source...

Good luck and please keep us posted if you try out the service...

I was just trying to log on to the www.kingfishtraders.com web site but it seems to be down at the moment. Is the site having problems? Or have they gone out of business?

Hi Daytrader,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I also canot get into Kingfishtrader website right now but I did earlier today so it is probably only temporary.

I think I will take the trial and I assume 1 week will be sufficient. I would not feel right going for a second week with a different name (unless I got permission). HTe next free trial starts Jan 2.

Based on the bit I do know about this it is a basic system from a technical point of view with real good money management and a lot of hand holding. This is not necessarily a bad thing. I have lost big money in many different investments (emini, commodities, options etc). Avoiding big losses is very important and might be worth $6,000.

I am concerned that there is not more info on the web about this. You would think a service that has been around for several years with hundreds of members would have many articles written about.

I'll keep you posted.

Bill

Looks like his web site is up and running again this morning. Obviously just a temporary glitch.

TIA for letting us know how it goes...

XBull,

I'm the Cuong from Austin, TX that you're talking about. What's room are you talking about in 2005? Sorry to said but 99.9% of people I met that want to teach don't even trade. Most of them are loud mouth salesman that don't put money where their mouths are. Are you one of those loud mouths salesman?